• STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

Outside of designated casual periods (e.g. casual Friday), my job requires a jacket and tie?

  • Yes

    Votes: 76 27.4%
  • No

    Votes: 201 72.6%

  • Total voters
    277

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
12,599
Reaction score
27,829
It would be great if perceived social class and wealth didn’t matter to people—but again, they undeniably do. That’s why trends in attire for high-earning professionals are more salient to this discussion than that of doormen or government workers. It has everything to do with the direction of influence and nothing to do with anyone being better than anyone else.
I don't think that's true. I don't think fashion flows anymore from high-earning professionals. Instead it comes from people who have cultural capital -- musicians, movie stars, etc. Those people may be high-earners, but they're not the professional class you're talking about. In fact, things die precisely when high-earning service professionals pick it up.

Look at two trends: slim fit clothing and gingham shirts. The move against slim-fit clothing comes partly because high-earning professionals started wearing it (yuppies, finance bros, tech bros, and disruptor types). It's the same for gingham shirts, which is now just a stylistic shorthand for a kind of yuppie.

The reason why the suit died has to do with how people want to seem increasingly more relatable and down to earth, and so formal clothing in every generation gets passed over for something more casual.
 

TheFoo

THE FOO
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
22,290
Reaction score
3,295
And.. I know this might come as shock to you, but when people post on the StyleForvm, they often post with hyperbole. But your point is that wearing your Patagonia vest is essential to fitting in, my point is that while that might be true in your specific world -- which seems to be tech-related investment banking -- in many other places, that's not the case, particularly because many workplace cultures are trending away from the type of social signaling you're describing. The fact that your professional well being is tied closely to a narrow aesthetic context says quite a bit about your field, but I would not say that it's the norm. Look at poster Andy57 -- who works as a computer programmer and wears a suit everyday.
I have only spoken to what I have experience with. It is not just my firm or even technology-focused investment banking, but broadly all of investment banking, private equity, venture capital, and the technology industry. Business casual is the most prevalent norm. The vest is no doubt a specific and short-term trend, but it is widespread.

Further, though New York City is not the only city that matters in the U.S., it is nonetheless the most populous and arguably most diverse—one pair of eyes and a walk through Manhattan is enough to show you how sharply standards of dress have shifted away from suits across the full spectrum of industries, professions, and ways if life.
 

TheFoo

THE FOO
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Feb 11, 2007
Messages
22,290
Reaction score
3,295
I don't think that's true. I don't think fashion flows anymore from high-earning professionals. Instead it comes from people who have cultural capital -- musicians, movie stars, etc. Those people may be high-earners, but they're not the professional class you're talking about. In fact, things die precisely when high-earning service professionals pick it up.

Look at two trends: slim fit clothing and gingham shirts. The move against slim-fit clothing comes partly because high-earning professionals started wearing it (yuppies, finance bros, tech bros, and disruptor types). It's the same for gingham shirts, which is now just a stylistic shorthand for a kind of yuppie.
You’re talking about Fashion with a capital ‘F’. This discussion is about work clothes. I can’t seem to recollect Kanye ever wearing a Patagonia vest.
 

Teger

Professional Style Farmer
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
22,423
Reaction score
7,352
I mean, we're also sidestepping an essential question: if given the choice, will people choose not to wear a suit because it's uncomfortable and expensive? If there was no consequence or perceived social signaling from wearing a suit, would you wear a suit Foof? Or would you wear your chinos and OCBDs and vest because it's easier?
 

Teger

Professional Style Farmer
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
22,423
Reaction score
7,352
You’re talking about Fashion with a capital ‘F’. This discussion is about work clothes. I can’t seem to recollect Kanye ever wearing a Patagonia vest.
Fashion with a capital "F" does influence work clothes, even if it takes awhile. The trend for slim fitting suits from Bonobos started with Heidi Slimane, among others, not Brooks Brothers. Hell, Brooks Brothers did a line with Thom Browne.
 

dieworkwear

Mahatma Jawndi
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Messages
12,599
Reaction score
27,829
You’re talking about Fashion with a capital ‘F’. This discussion is about work clothes. I can’t seem to recollect Kanye ever wearing a Patagonia vest.
In an increasingly open world though, what do you think happens if someone dressed differently from their peers? Assuming your dress isn't so out there, like a top hat and morning coat. If it's a sport coat or something on the border of capital-F fashion.

I agree it's a good idea to be relatable, but whether you're relatable or not has more to do with your personality than your dress.

If we limit this convo to just finance, which I have no experience with, then this convo is almost entirely useless. If you broaden it out to more industries, it's hard for me to see what are the more serious negative consequences of wearing a sport coat. People will make some jokes at first, but who cares? Guys are just too scared of standing out a little.
 

Teger

Professional Style Farmer
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
22,423
Reaction score
7,352
In an increasingly open world though, what do you think happens if someone dressed differently from their peers? Assuming your dress isn't so out there, like a top hat and morning coat. If it's a sport coat or something on the border of capital-F fashion.

I agree it's a good idea to be relatable, but whether you're relatable or not has more to do with your personality than your dress.

If we limit this convo to just finance, which I have no experience with, then this convo is almost entirely useless. If you broaden it out to more industries, it's hard for me to see what are the more serious negative consequences of wearing a sport coat. People will make some jokes at first, but who cares? Guys are just too scared of standing out a little.
Meet our soon to be VA state Senator, who has been disbarred twice and convicted of a sex crime (with the girl in the photo, who he got pregnant when she was 17 and then married when he got out of jail). It seems his clothing choice hasn't stopped him!

1190752
 

vida

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2010
Messages
550
Reaction score
138
Premise of this thread is for smalltimers. Real men dress themselves and dress appropriately and harmoniously for the occasion. What has changed is social standards. Anything goes today in such an individualized culture. What surprises me is how much conformity to a way of dressing occurs in the pursuit of individualism.
Even one of my better dressed clients is wearing sport jacket and tie instead of a suit to NBA games.
In all seriousness, why would anyone wear a jacket or suit to an NBA game??
 

Despos

Distinguished Member
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Mar 16, 2006
Messages
6,440
Reaction score
1,710
In all seriousness, why would anyone wear a jacket or suit to an NBA game??
Because with some men, wearing a suit or jacket is their preferable choice of how they dress. Asked this client, maybe a decade ago, how business casual has impacted his business or the way he dresses. He said " it doesn't change anything for me".
Think I have an unusual clientele. They don't care what others do. Sometimes they are the only one in a jacket at conferences or meetings and they could not care less what anyone thought about it. It's not arrogance, it's how they dress every day. They don't have to, they want to.
 

am55

Distinguished Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2014
Messages
2,905
Reaction score
1,923
Here's a show that uses clothes to quickly put its actors into the right boxes to set up the drama for the audience efficiently:

1190759


Quick, which one is the MBA who worked in corporate? Which one is the VC? Which one is the rebel coding genius who doesn't give a crap?
 

vida

Senior Member
Joined
May 6, 2010
Messages
550
Reaction score
138
Because with some men, wearing a suit or jacket is their preferable choice of how they dress. Asked this client, maybe a decade ago, how business casual has impacted his business or the way he dresses. He said " it doesn't change anything for me".
Think I have an unusual clientele. They don't care what others do. Sometimes they are the only one in a jacket at conferences or meetings and they could not care less what anyone thought about it. It's not arrogance, it's how they dress every day. They don't have to, they want to.
Good for them...their confidence should be admired! Perhaps those of us lamenting the decline of tailored clothing should take a page from these guys.
 

Despos

Distinguished Member
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Mar 16, 2006
Messages
6,440
Reaction score
1,710
Not sure if it is still an exhibit ay Disneyland CA. but there was an animation exhibit that described how they conceptualized dressing the seven dwarfs to connect their appearance to their name. Remember they decided the clothes should be Ill fitting for Dopey.
 

ValidusLA

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2019
Messages
91
Reaction score
53
Because with some men, wearing a suit or jacket is their preferable choice of how they dress. Asked this client, maybe a decade ago, how business casual has impacted his business or the way he dresses. He said " it doesn't change anything for me".
Think I have an unusual clientele. They don't care what others do. Sometimes they are the only one in a jacket at conferences or meetings and they could not care less what anyone thought about it. It's not arrogance, it's how they dress every day. They don't have to, they want to.
I work in private label clothing, and everyone is casual. I am constantly more dressed than anyone but some of the buyers. Get a lot of compliments on it honestly and haven't felt too much blow back.

My father is an architect - does giant office complexes paid for by Chinese money mostly these days. He's a principal at his firm and is the only one in a suit. Everyone else is wearing a t-shirt, but he sticks to a suit and tie 1) because he's in charge and 2) because he likes it. If only I could get him to not wear horrid american sack suits.
 

Despos

Distinguished Member
Dubiously Honored
Joined
Mar 16, 2006
Messages
6,440
Reaction score
1,710
Good for them...their confidence should be admired! Perhaps those of us lamenting the decline of tailored clothing should take a page from these guys.
Have been around longer than many on this forum and have seen the suit die several deaths. The leisure suit (70's) put an end to conventional suiting and ties. Wearing t shirts with suits followed that. Denim and tailored jackets, it still lives. 70's silhouette was flared or even bell bottom trousers and concave shouldered jackets fitted very close to the body. Synthetic fibers were praised for resiliency to wrinkling.
Men rebelled against close fitting garments in the 80's and Armani introduced extended shoulders and pleated trousers in drapey cloth and men responded by wearing suits again.
90's were venture capital days and Brioni was the suit of the moment.
Thom Browne created a caricature of the '60s suit silhouette and suits were cool again.
If a suit doesn't fit, It's your worse night mare. Something you are required to wear and miserable doing so. Maybe this modern anorexic silhouette has contributed to the decline of the suit. You have be lean and trim to wear it. And if you can't wear it you are antiquated by default. Wearing a suit has become a burden.
On the other hand a well proportioned suit will enhance anyone's appearance regardless of your size
 
Last edited:

Featured Sponsor

What's your favorite type of loafer?

  • Tassel loafers

  • Penny loafers

  • Horsebit loafers

  • Kiltie loafers

  • I hate loafers


Results are only viewable after voting.

Related Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
420,483
Messages
9,030,438
Members
190,117
Latest member
forwardarrival

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by

Top