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Who needs HDTV Set and why?

Discussion in 'Fine Living, Home, Design & Auto' started by Pezzaturra, Sep 8, 2009.

  1. Pezzaturra

    Pezzaturra Senior member

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    Isn't the whole HDTV bonanza nothing but marketing ploy to make people upgrade their TV sets? Or in other words spend their money...

    I have read that cable companies stream every HD signal compressed. So I plugged the antenna into my TV's tuner and i was blown away by how sharper and 3-d the picture looked. Then I read a bit about broadcast HD and learned that the highest quality is only 1080i...

    So there is no cable or broadcast signal that provides 1080p resolution thus 1080p TVs are useless, unless you play Blue Ray dvds .

    Then I went back and looked again at my FIOS cable, man was it lacking compared to free air broadcast channels.

    Where is FCC when you need them to protect consumers from false claims?

    End of rant.
     
  2. grundletaint

    grundletaint Senior member

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    what? the signals are being broadcast digitally to free up analog space. nobody ever said everything will be in 1080p. most prime-time shit is going in 720 or 1080i so of course you'll see a difference if your TV is capable of processing it.

    it sounds like you're confusing 2 issues....one being the validity of 1080p and the other being the quality of cable vs. OTA picture.
     
  3. A Y

    A Y Senior member

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    So there is no cable or broadcast signal that provides 1080p resolution thus 1080p TVs are useless, unless you play Blue Ray dvds

    Not necessarily. Some 1080i broadcasts can be reconstructed perfectly into 1080p if you have a sufficiently smart TV or video processor. 60 interlaced frames carry more than enough info to reconstruct 24 progressive frames. The technical term for this kind of signal is 1080psF, and works great for material shot in 24 frames/second, like most movies.

    Nevertheless, if you're only watching broadcast or cable TV on high-def, you're missing out on a lot of HDTV's potential. BluRays are the best material currently available if you really want to get the most out of your HDTV.

    --Andre
     
  4. Pezzaturra

    Pezzaturra Senior member

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    Not necessarily. Some 1080i broadcasts can be reconstructed perfectly into 1080p if you have a sufficiently smart TV or video processor. 60 interlaced frames carry more than enough info to reconstruct 24 progressive frames. The technical term for this kind of signal is 1080psF, and works great for material shot in 24 frames/second, like most movies.

    Nevertheless, if you're only watching broadcast or cable TV on high-def, you're missing out on a lot of HDTV's potential. BluRays are the best material currently available if you really want to get the most out of your HDTV.

    --Andre


    It is also called up converting or line-doubling . I read a paper on it and it seems to me it is a gimmick just like up converting DVD-players.

    Plus here is my other beef with TV programming. For every 5 minutes of programming you made to watch 4 minutes of commercials, so what do most people do? They use DVR feature and that is not even close to 720p (my guess). If you record programs or pause live TV you are watching it from the hard drive of your DVR in terribly degraded quality that does not even approach 1080i.
     
  5. javyn

    javyn Senior member

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    Much of my library is still in VHS format. Going to a HD television would be a step in the wrong direction as far as picture quality goes. I have no reason to get a television with a higher resolution to make all my old media look even worse.

    IMO this is just a racket. Seems like people JUST replaced all their VHS with DVD, and now you have to start replacing your DVDs with Blueray at around 40 bucks a pop.

    I don't think so.

    My next media player isn't going to be Blueray, it's going to be a streamer like a WDTV or Popcorn Hour.
     
  6. grundletaint

    grundletaint Senior member

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    you're doing it wrong
     
  7. javyn

    javyn Senior member

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  8. A Y

    A Y Senior member

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    It is also called up converting or line-doubling . I read a paper on it and it seems to me it is a gimmick just like up converting DVD-players.

    That depends on the quality of your upconverter. There are some terrible ones out there, and there are some very good ones. With the right material and a good upconverter, you can fully exploit 1080p, and aren't gimmicks.

    DVRs that record broadcast HDTV don't degrade quality, and arguably they are better than regular analog DVRs. That's because they record the undecoded MPEG stream straight off the air, and do the decoding when you play it back --- they don't alter the stream that's being transmitted.

    My DVR easily gets 1080i quality within the constraints of broadcast TV (ie. the usual MPEG artifacts, noise, and other things endemic to broadcast TV).

    --Andre
     
  9. grundletaint

    grundletaint Senior member

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    How so?

    you're using VHS as an excuse to avoid an HDTV? missing out on network broadcasts, sports, discovery channel, etc.

    hell, you can get a blueray player that streams netflix or even a roku box that does netflix plus amazon's streaming service that has something like 40K+ movies. i just rent the bluerays, too. i have a huge DVD collection that's now in storage because most of the stuff i have can now be streamed.

    if your movies are old enough to be on VHS you can probably find them for less than 10 bucks on DVD, too.
     
  10. javyn

    javyn Senior member

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    I generally loathe network broadcasts, sports, etc. For movies and shows I use Netflix. I know I can move up from VHS to DVD rather cheaply, but even more cheaply I can just not upgrade at all and watch what I have. Besides, most of what I like are hard to find B movies, many of which were never released on DVD at all.
     
  11. grundletaint

    grundletaint Senior member

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    I generally loathe network broadcasts, sports, etc. For movies and shows I use Netflix. I know I can move up from VHS to DVD rather cheaply, but even more cheaply I can just not upgrade at all and watch what I have. Besides, most of what I like are hard to find B movies, many of which were never released on DVD at all.
    then you can set the TV to accept the VHS in 480i and all will be fine since it'll just take the original signal. EMBRACE THE TECHNOLOGY, CITIZEN! your netflix will look better
     
  12. javyn

    javyn Senior member

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    Really? You can lower the rez on those TVs? I came close to buying a Vizio from Walmart. Even though I'm averse to getting HD, my main TV (Trinitron) is only 21 inches and I was looking to upgrade to a 32.

    Thought I'd have to go to craigslist to try and snag one of those massive and heavy Vegas heh.
     
  13. Cary Grant

    Cary Grant Senior member

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    Where is FCC when you need them to protect consumers from false claims?

    End of rant.


    You've got it backwards. The drive to HD for TV and radio came from the Fed (I work in broadcasting). It's been laborious and extrememly expensive (my first demo of HD and planning was about 15 years ago and it's been taking up time ever since). For example, TV and Radio, to bradcast HD/Digital need digital antenna arrays... which are larger/heavier... which happen not to fit on many existing towers...

    Among many reasons, they're reassigning spectrum and moving to HD is step in that process (especiall true of radio right now).


    You're right about broadcast limited to 720p or 1080i... but damn does blu-ray look hot on 1080p [​IMG]
     
  14. grundletaint

    grundletaint Senior member

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    yah. they all start at 480i. it's not necessarily "lowering" the resolution as it is getting the TV to accept the original signal without upscaling it.

    my old sony even had it so each input could be set differently. my DVR, XBOX, gamecube, and DVD player were all on their own settings
     
  15. Pezzaturra

    Pezzaturra Senior member

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    yah. they all start at 480i. it's not necessarily "lowering" the resolution as it is getting the TV to accept the original signal without upscaling it.

    my old sony even had it so each input could be set differently. my DVR, XBOX, gamecube, and DVD player were all on their own settings


    I would argue that if you watch VHS on Catode tube TV going to flat screen will degrade quality. Analog signal looks worse on digital flat screen TVs than on analog Tubes.
     
  16. Pezzaturra

    Pezzaturra Senior member

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    You've got it backwards. The drive to HD for TV and radio came from the Fed (I work in broadcasting).

    It came form Fed ,but without clarifying what all those abbreviations and technical terms mean. Thus fed (as often) let retailers take advantage of consumer for TEH benefit of our gr-r-reat economic growth.

    At the dawn of so-called HDTV ;retailers and manufacturers were mislabeling (lying) their TV sets as being 720p while their manuals clearly showed that those TVs did not have enough pixels to display 720p picture.
    The fleecing of consumer continues with a quiet complacency from the fed.
     
  17. Pezzaturra

    Pezzaturra Senior member

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    That depends on the quality of your upconverter. There are some terrible ones out there, and there are some very good ones. With the right material and a good upconverter, you can fully exploit 1080p, and aren't gimmicks.



    DVRs that record broadcast HDTV don't degrade quality, and arguably they are better than regular analog DVRs. That's because they record the undecoded MPEG stream straight off the air, and do the decoding when you play it back --- they don't alter the stream that's being transmitted.

    My DVR easily gets 1080i quality within the constraints of broadcast TV (ie. the usual MPEG artifacts, noise, and other things endemic to broadcast TV).

    --Andre


    I am not talking about broadcast to DVR, almost no one uses that. I am talking about cable signal to DVR, it aren't recorded in HD.

    As far as better up converters are concerned ; allow me to be skeptical[​IMG] Marginally sharper picture sure , up convert to full 1080p - physically impossible, imho.
     
  18. A Y

    A Y Senior member

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    yah. they all start at 480i. it's not necessarily "lowering" the resolution as it is getting the TV to accept the original signal without upscaling it.

    my old sony even had it so each input could be set differently. my DVR, XBOX, gamecube, and DVD player were all on their own settings


    Was your old Sony a CRT? Digital displays like LCDs and plasmas must always upconvert 480i. You cannot not upscale a low-res input into a digital display.

    I am not talking about broadcast to DVR, almost no one uses that. I am talking about cable signal to DVR, it aren't recorded in HD.

    Sorry to be unclear. In my usage, broadcast=cable. It sounds like your DVR is misconfigured or not made for HD.

    Read up on inverse telecine to see how you can get 1080p from 1080i.

    --Andre
     
  19. Artisan Fan

    Artisan Fan Senior member

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    I personally need HDTV...BluRay is a noticeable improvement over DVD and my 1080P set looks terrific. Even upconverted DVDs look terrific.
     
  20. Dmax

    Dmax Senior member

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    I am not talking about broadcast to DVR, almost no one uses that. I am talking about cable signal to DVR, it aren't recorded in HD.
    This is not true. HD-DVRs from Directv, Verizon FIOS, Cable companies or "Cable Card" capable Tivo units do not compress the signal. They decrypt it in the same way and store it but when sent output through their HDMI connection the signal will be identical to the one output from a non DVR HD converter box. I hope you are not confusing these with regular DVR boxes which are not capable of recording undecrypted HD signal at all.
     

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