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whnay.'s good taste thread

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Manton, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Looks less wide in the second pic.
     
  2. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Not at all.
     
  3. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Here's what I mean:

    [​IMG]

    Just because a shoulder is straight, built-up, and structured, doesn't mean it should hit the collar at a hard angle. Rather, they should curve gently into each other. That could have to do with how much padding is used in the shoulder, how the collar is shaped/cut, how the shoulder is cut, etc. But I don't see how one could assume one's own body is creating such a harsh, abrupt transition. We already know the shoulder line itself is artificial, so we also know it didn't have to be made exactly the way it was.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  4. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    The one on the right looks ridiculous. Why would you want to pad someone's neck?
     
  5. bboysdontcryy

    bboysdontcryy Senior member

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    Might have been the way the coat has been cut, or in part due to the shirt collar, or it might be because it'll hug my collar better and since I don't have a wide shoulder, it needs to anchor somewhere. I don't have an answer since that's something I never actually noticed. I'll check with the cutter when I swing by.

    Did a quick search to see if it's the case on English coats that have a military-esque. Seems like it's deliberate, but I don't know for sure.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Also, an old German picture.


    [​IMG]
     
  6. oldog/oldtrix

    oldog/oldtrix Senior member

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    Hate the white line; like the eye-catching/snagging/cutting:



    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]
     
    2 people like this.
  7. mafoofan

    mafoofan Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    You don't have to pad the neck, just more judiciously pad the shoulder.
     
  8. Ivar

    Ivar Senior member

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    If you mean to say that this kind of fold often looks better than a TV fold, then I'm with you on that one. (Although I prefer the fold a bit less expansive than in this picture.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2013
  9. JPHardy

    JPHardy Senior member

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    Brown Linen Suit-

    1. Does it fall under the (small group of people on this thread) parameters of good taste?

    If so what to pair with it?

    a. Shirt
    b. Tie
    c. Square
    d. Shoe

    [​IMG]
    2. Should the buttons be changed to lighter color?

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  10. poorsod

    poorsod Senior member

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    Here are some Richard Anderson coats

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  11. RDiaz

    RDiaz Senior member

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    JP, I would pair that suit with casual summer ties, i.e. knits, linen, popelin, shantung... brown + patch pockets + linen = very casual (is it also unstructured?)
    As for the shirts, light popelin, cotton linen... in light blue. The suit is so casual I wouldn't hesitate to wear it with cotton linen button downs.
    PS and shoe recommendations I do not dare with.

    Whether it is in good taste or not will depend on what you pair it with; I don't see anything wrong with it per se (I would like wider lapels though), but others may disagree.

    Changing the buttons depends on what you like, but I like it better with the darker buttons...
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2013
  12. bboysdontcryy

    bboysdontcryy Senior member

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    Poorsod -- Thanks for the pictures. I think the first picture you posted is distorting it a bit though because the guy is seated, and as you can, it's not hugging his collar, and the lapels are also, sort of bowing outwards.

    Here are two:

    [​IMG][/SPOILER]/IMG]

    I can see that my angle is a little sharper (or as sharp) and I can only speculate why that might be so. It might have been necessary because of my rounded/semi-hunched back, or it might not. I also wore a shirt with a very short collar to the fitting, and that might have affected the outcome. I have fairly prominent muscles just about the base of my neck (trapezius area). Many variables. But I don't know why -- never noticed it until Foo pointed it out. I'll try to remember to ask when I swing by.

    Another Huntsman. A DB this time. Look at his left shoulder (your right).

    [​IMG]

    Angus Cundey --

    [​IMG]

    Here's Simon's Poole, without that angled collar. You can see that the slope starts from higher, so there's no angle. Unlike on mine, as well as Richard Anderson and Pat Murphy's stuff where it's angled, as opposed to a slope like on Simon's.

    I'll try get some pictures of my Poole coats to see if it's the same.

    Is this better than the angled collar? I don't know. Looks a little too slopey for me. Like one could slide down those ramps. I think I'd appreciate it if it's slightly more built up on Simon's coat.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2013
  13. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    JP - no idea about good taste, but i like the suit, and think it would be great with casual shirts, light summer colors, and no tie. or casual cotton ties if you must.
     
  14. NORE

    NORE Senior member

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    This can be good or bad. You choose which.
     
  15. bboysdontcryy

    bboysdontcryy Senior member

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    Frankly, I don't think I see it as being as much of a problem as Foo does. The fact I never noticed it is telling, but I like to know why certain things are done, so I'll just strike a conversation with my tailor. On a more substantive note, I had my subsequent coats lengthened a fraction, plus made with slightly wider lapels, however.

    The latter point was difficult. The cutter seemed to think that wide lapels would swallow my frame up, and he preferred more balance.

    Good comparison of Foo's Neapolitan tailoring vs English tailoring below (I never specified anything on my blazer except to insist for a shorter length, swappable buttons, and smth professional). In retrospect, I think I cld have gone a little longer.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2013
  16. Big A

    Big A Senior member

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    The shoulders on this are an abomination. The hand washing instructions in the background are spot on, however.

    With respect to the first pic, is it just me or is there a strange bump on the right shoulder? Also, why is the right sleeve so wide?
     
  17. bboysdontcryy

    bboysdontcryy Senior member

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    Am aware that straight extended shoulders aren't exactly beloved by the forum since Manton wrote about the forum's preference for shoulders sans padding here. Though, like I said, I have nearly straight shoulders, so not much I can do about that.

    I think that the shoulders in that first pic at the other thread looks good, however. Worked with that heavy cloth.

    Straight extended shoulders with padding are more common (if not the norm) here, especially so in a convervative business setting. Here's Edward Fox playing the Duke of Windsor, and another English actor whose name eludes me.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I read that Luca Rubinacci spent a year training/working on the Row -- at Kilgour, I think -- to pick up certain skills, and he was mocked for his shoulder-type. He soon came to embrace the softer shoulder expression.

    Simon wrote about it on his blog: 'Luca also told the story of when he first went to work in England, at the age of 18 at Kilgour French & Stanbury. Apparently when he entered the shop wearing his first Rubinacci suit he was bursting with pride, only to be deflated with friendly barbs from all the Kilgour staff, pointing and laughing at the shoulders, the chest, the pockets.'

    The strong r/s the Row has with the military, and England's culture and society necessarily informed the expression of suit styles and methods of production. For instance, with the advent of the Industrial Revolution,the English have always been keen to find more efficient methods of doing the same stuff, and handwork is done insofar as it is keeping with tradition and is necessary. I think the Italians adopt a slightly different approach to it. I was also told that in order for the British military to look more orderly and imposing etc so as to score a psychological victory on the battlefront, this led to the creation of a more shaped garment.

    Discussion with my SR tailor, and general observation:

    Without putting too fine a point on this, however, I've noticed that good English tailors tend to try to cut coats which they believe will hide flaws, they strive towards technical perfection. They also have a very distinct vantage point as to what is considered a good coat. That sort of hangs in the backdrop when they cut a coat. What you have, maybe, is as what Italian tailors have lambasted the Brits for creating -- a coat without a soul. True or not is separate. My Neapolitan coat is rather different, I feel, and I had to get used to what I had considered technical imperfections.

    Incidentally, I was speaking with my cutter at Poole on Friday and we were talking about their business strategy in general. He said, smth interesting, yet not as surprising -- that whilst most of the houses on SR has a customer mix where 30% are British, 40% being American, and the rest from around the world, he commented that A&S would have nearly no business without America. Definitely the case that the softer look has more adherents across the pond. I wonder why and if that's a graduation from Brooks Brother's unstructured stuff.

    Just did a cursory check. A&S flies only to the States. Meyer & Mortimer to States, Canada and Europe, as with other bigger houses.

    With regards to the strange bump on Foo's right shoulder, and his sleeve width you pointed out -- beats me.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2013
    1 person likes this.
  18. add911_11

    add911_11 Senior member

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    Thanks for digging this up. excellent.
     
  19. add911_11

    add911_11 Senior member

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    Well everyone in here is.
     
  20. vida

    vida Senior member

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    Great info. bboysdontcryy. Thank you. BYW, I am American and I prefer an English shoulder. I think it offers a much cleaner look while the typical soft shoulder looks a bit uninspired. However, soft shoulders seem more casual, FWIW.
     

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