Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Manton, Jul 30, 2012.
This is from yesterday. I'm not sure if I will get docked for the lilac shirt.
From today. I know self-stripe suits are bad, but I'm not sure about shirts.
A question on your pattern matching article. You say to stick to two or three patterns. I get that, but is there any order of preference in where those patterns should be? For instance, in your opinion if one is going to attempt two patterns is it preferable for those patterned items to be the shirt, jacket, tie, or square? I can imagine having a patterned jacket and square, with everything else solid, might look a little awkward. Do you see what I'm saying? Thoughts?
I think the tie is more a problem than than the shirt actually. I realize ties in jacketing cloth and tweed have been all the rage the past couple of years, but they are actually not very useful. You should generally use them to make a worsted suit more casual, not pair them with odd jackets of similar cloth type.
I would avoid putting your two patterns on your tie and square. It tends to further distinguish them as ornaments, which you don't want to do. Putting them on jacket and square can also be problematic, as it blocks off one part of your outfit as patterned and the other as not.
For two patterns, shirt plus jacket, shirt plus square, and tie plus jacket are more easily worked in my experience.
Interesting ideas. I have sometimes made my patterned items tie/square, but I can see what you mean by distinguishing them as "ornaments". To use your term, I think this effect is mitigated somewhat by a small, less dense, pattern.
The tie and square are two of the first places anyone puts a pattern, because people tend to see them as obvious opportunities to "express themselves" or be "creative." Hence, the frequent disaster. In truth, when viewed as integrated parts of a whole outfit, you should do everything you can to avoid distinguishing them as a pair.
Slew, FWIW, I liked that suit better when it still had the show buttons.
I dislike the black shoes less than foo does.
What do you mean by 'avoid distinguishing them as a pair'? Maybe I'm just reading too much into that phrase -- but, do you mean the pocket square and tie shouldn't look like they're a pair, that is, similar colours, prints etc? Or do you mean (even though the phrase, taken literally, doesn't really mean this) that both the tie and pocket square, as a pair, should 'blend in' with the rest of the outfit?
The point is that you should avoid anything that groups the square and tie together and apart from everything else. That tends to happen when they are the only two components to share a strong distinguishing feature, such as being patterned, or having a certain color. You can solve this by adding that feature to a third component, or taking it away from either the square or tie.
^ Thanks for clarifying that.
Well, the cloth is a thick silk + wool blend that I really wouldn't use for a jacket. When you mentioned contrast don't you mean that the tie looks a bit washed off against the shirt?
It's not a question of what it's made of--it's a question of what it looks like and is meant to look like. These sorts of ties are common today, and the clear reference is to suiting and jacketing materials. Nobody is checking the label on your tie and going "Aha! It's not actually jacketing. We're all good."
Yes, the tie looks washed out with the shirt. But the shirt is fine with the suit, and the tie is not. Hence, the tie is the problem.
I'd be interested to see what yall think of the white PS here--there is white in the shirt that it picks up, so I don't think it's a total disconnect.
Paired with mid-grey flannels and brown semi-brogues. Tie is darker than it appears here, is a burgundy color.
Also, gave the fold a try. Not bad, I must say.
As always, apologies for crappy, overexposed photos.
I think that is because you are older -- not only have you become more conservative over time (I bet you favor brown over black less often now than you did five years ago), but also your frame of reference is different, haveing started at a time where black was more strictly the norm.
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