whnay.'s good taste thread

[Big A]



This is the same destructive reductionism that rendered WAYWRN the aesthetic equivalent of a post-apocalyptic zombie-overrun carnival wasteland.

The second :foo: post I unequivocally agree with today. I'm looking for something stronger than the scotch to calm my nerves.

 

[RDiaz]

I think this was one of my best efforts so far, perhaps even in good taste, so I'll post it here and see if someone is willing to tear it to shreds; there's probably plenty of room for improvement. For a start, I think this would have been better with a buttondown collar, but the shade of blue in my two OCBD's doesn't look that good with this green tweed. Go figure.

Would you have the elbow patches removed? I like them when wearing this as an odd jacket, but not as a suit...



BTW, now that we're on the subject of refined shirts with tweed, this one is quite "dressy" - does the fact it's a bengal stripe save it from being incoherent?

 

[Caustic Man]

Patches are definitely not what I would want on a suit, but this is the type of odd jacket I like. Something with a pattern and a little color, but not too conspicuous.

 

[mktitsworth]

I have that square. It is my favorite.

 

[Claghorn]

So this question seems somewhat germane:

I didn't own any ocbd before SF...and I still struggle a lot with clashing formality both because of wardrobe restrictions and lack of experience with anything outside a suit.

I've picked up some decent odd jackets since joining and have purchased quite a few oxford cloth (both button down and non button down) shirts to go with them.

It seems like button down bumps the shirt in the casual direction, so I'm thinking of getting a few non oxford cloth button down shirts to broaden my options. Any advice as to what to avoid or what to purchase?

@ArrrDiaz: I pinned that fit to a personal board to keep track of stuff I like. I chose the second picture both because of the fabric detail and the lack of elbow patches. If you have a similar suit already, no harm in keeping the patches, but I think I like it better without. No Foo-level analysis behind the preference, I'm afraid.

 

[NOBD]

Doc wins.

It was a good experiment, Stitches. There were good tips for improvements too, when it comes to fabrics/texture and seasonality, but you experimented in an interesting direction, in stead of in the usual colour or pattern clash direction many members seem to go.

 

[clapeyron]

Would you have the elbow patches removed? I like them when wearing this as an odd jacket, but not as a suit...

I agree completely with your assessment, the elbow patches work great with the jacket and the fabric makes for a great suit, but the patches don't really work for me in the context of a suit.

Would be great if the elbow patches were attached via Velcro or magnets and you could detach them depending on the situation.
I'm calling the patent office as we speak.

 

[recondite]

Doc wins.

It was a good experiment, Stitches. There were good tips for improvements too, when it comes to fabrics/texture and seasonality, but you experimented in an interesting direction, in stead of in the usual colour or pattern clash direction many members seem to go.

I, for one, am fascinated with the idea that a shirt fabric, depending on its finish or color, would be too formal for the indicated sport jacket or for wearing with any sport coat, tweed or other.

If poplin is too formal, why not wear a shirt of Marcella to add some texture and surface interest that would exceed even your average oxford cloth, or that also considered a "formal" cloth?

I believe that a monochromatic, or more accurately, achromatic outfit, such as the one in question, would benefit from materials that are in sharp contrast due to their surface finishes. So, I like the smoother shirt in contrast to the worsted jacket and woven tie.

After all, if an outfit can benefit from contrasting colors and/or tones, could it not also benefit from contrasting textures, especially in an outfit where there are only contrasting tones and no color present?


Contrast is something that can make a composition attractive to the eye, whether it is found in color, tone, or texture. And a truly monochromatic outfit could use some contrast somewhere in the composition to create interest, so why not a contrast between textures or surface finishes? And why not, as demonstrated?

I say; yes, yes, and yes.

Well done!

 

[RDiaz]

Would be great if the elbow patches were attached via Velcro or magnets and you could detach them depending on the situation.
I'm calling the patent office as we speak.

LOL

I suggested Velcro in the WAYWRN thread already, but magnets might be a better idea - they don't wear out.

 

[crooky13]



It is not nonsense. The formality of white versus other colors when it comes to shirts is well-established. The social connotations of the terms "white collar" and "blue collar" are indicative. This is not a matter of forum groupthink--if it were, so many of you wouldn't dress in such ignorance of the principle.

In the past, when you suppose a "shirt" would mean a "white shirt," people also would not have worn tweed jackets in the city. Go ahead and do your own historical research. I have a hard time recollecting examples of well-dressed men making a habit of wearing white shirts with tweed or other odd jackets.

Adopting this train of thought should therefore preclude men from wearing blue shirts with suits.

There are many "well-dressed" men who have managed to overcome the informality of a blue collar when pairing it with a suit. Prince Charles has a fondness for blue shirts and I am yet to hear anyone describe him as informal.

 

[Hampton]

 

[in stitches]



Doc wins.
It was a good experiment, Stitches. There were good tips for improvements too, when it comes to fabrics/texture and seasonality, but you experimented in an interesting direction, in stead of in the usual colour or pattern clash direction many members seem to go.

when does doc not win?

thanks, NOBD. i kind of owe it all to you and SB.

it was fun. i still like the look, and may try it with a different tie next time. even if with the same shirt, or maybe a more textured white shirt. or maybe a blue one. who knows. it prompted a good conversation, that never steered into pissing match or ending up peppered with snarky insults. i learned from it, and enjoyed it. i hope everyone else did as well.

 

[Coronaeus]

So this question seems somewhat germane:

I didn't own any ocbd before SF...and I still struggle a lot with clashing formality both because of wardrobe restrictions and lack of experience with anything outside a suit.

I've picked up some decent odd jackets since joining and have purchased quite a few oxford cloth (both button down and non button down) shirts to go with them.

It seems like button down bumps the shirt in the casual direction, so I'm thinking of getting a few non oxford cloth button down shirts to broaden my options. Any advice as to what to avoid or what to purchase?

@ArrrDiaz: I pinned that fit to a personal board to keep track of stuff I like. I chose the second picture both because of the fabric detail and the lack of elbow patches. If you have a similar suit already, no harm in keeping the patches, but I think I like it better without. No Foo-level analysis behind the preference, I'm afraid.

I've been following, and enjoying this thread for some time. Much interesting opinion and advice.

I've been pondering a question along similar lines for a while now. I don't own any "in-between" shirts. My shirts are either OCBD, or more refined cotton with a spread collar. What place do non-Oxford Cloth button down shirts or Oxford Cloth shirts that do not button down have in ones wardrobe? How formal (and versatile) would the former be considered?


Also, and as a corollary, are striped OCBDs generally considered to be in the same "formality" class as solid OCBDs? I have tended to wear my striped OCBD exclusively without a tie, and in a fairly casual manner.

Cheers, and thanks.

 

[TheFoo]



I, for one, am fascinated with the idea that a shirt fabric, depending on its finish or color, would be too formal for the indicated sport jacket or for wearing with any sport coat, tweed or other.

If poplin is too formal, why not wear a shirt of Marcella to add some texture and surface interest that would exceed even your average oxford cloth, or that also considered a "formal" cloth?

If you're reading into what I said earlier, I think you are taking it the wrong way.

There is nothing wrong with pairing poplin and tweed. The fundamental and incurable problem with Stitch's outfit is that the shirt is white. Yes, poplin is more formal than, say, oxford cloth. And yes, a spread collar is more formal than a buttondown collar. Hence, the fact that Stitch picked the absolute most inappropriate color for a shirt worn with a faux tweed jacket (yes, that's what it is--not an opinion, but fact), and also picked a formal collar and cloth, is an insult-added-to-injury situation. He is signaling that he really doesn't know what he's doing. He made one big mistake, then garnished it with more evidence he doesn't understand the error.

A blue poplin, spread collar shirt would have been perfectly fine. I would have no problem wearing such a shirt with that jacket. A white OCBD would still not look right, and I would not do it, but it would better than a white, poplin spread collar.

Make sense?

I believe that a monochromatic, or more accurately, achromatic outfit, such as the one in question, would benefit from materials that are in sharp contrast due to their surface finishes. So, I like the smoother shirt in contrast to the worsted jacket and woven tie.

You are correct that textural contrast is important. That's why his tie is somewhat problematic. It is very similar to his jacket in implied textured. Remember, texture plays with color and pattern as well. Even if the jacket is technically smoother than the tie, in balance, they imply something of very similar value due to the jacket's pronounced, decidedly unsuitlike pattern that is typical of real tweed jackets. I have many such "tweed" jackets myself.

The texture of the shirt itself is no determining issue. It's the color (white).

What place do non-Oxford Cloth button down shirts or Oxford Cloth shirts that do not button down have in ones wardrobe?  How formal (and versatile) would the former be considered?

They are less formal than non-buttondown collared shirts. Both because of the collar and the cloth. They are exceedingly versatile. You can wear them alone, with no tie and no jacket. With a jacket and no tie. WIth a jacket and a tie. With a suit. Etc. Just keep in mind that when worn with a suit, a buttondown collar tends to strike a more casual air.

Also, and as a corollary, are striped OCBDs generally considered to be in the same "formality" class as solid OCBDs? I have tended to wear my striped OCBD exclusively without a tie, and in a fairly casual manner.

I would not distinguish between them in terms of formality. Though, if absolutely forced to say, I'd have to judge solid colored OCBDs just a hair--an inconsequential hair--more formal.

 

[RogerC]



Another datum. Tweedy odd jacket with refined, spread-collar, blue shirt and knit tie. Discuss.

I like it, but would like it even more if the shirt were a bit variegated. Ede and Ravenscroft had a wonderful marbled sky herringbone shirt, but they don't do 37in sleeves, unfortunately.

My efforts for today: academic good taste?