whnay.'s good taste thread

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Manton, Jul 30, 2012.

  1. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    The square is cream silk, not white. Socks are black silk with a woven diamond pattern, but my dinner suit is midnight blue, not black.

    That said, I have no qualms about white squares or black socks worn in a black tie ensemble. The outfit fundamentally relies on binary contrast.
     
  2. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    I have one dotted knit, which I like but don't seem to wear much. I think the reason is that I tend to wear knits with jackets, most of which are already patterened, and often with striped shirts, so a solid tie just works better. When I wear that one dotted knit it tends to be with a blazer or a suit.
     
  3. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I have a really nice one that I bought at Gallo, which I have worn less than once.
     
  4. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    Mktits - Looks nice.

    It's good that you did not embed it from the mobile site, the pictures from there come out very small.
     
  5. in stitches

    in stitches Kung Joo Moderator

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    There is no way I am the only one who hopes that you two will discuss this over dinner.
     
  6. Cantabrigian

    Cantabrigian Senior member

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    You forgot...

    (and I'll be right outside with my nose pressed up against the window lip-reading every word)
     
  7. Victor Elfo

    Victor Elfo Senior member

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    I don't see any difference between the objective of a black tie ensemble and a lounge suit ensemble, it's all about framing the face. The difference is the conditions in which they do it.
    If a white square with a white shirt are distracting, they will be more distracting on the evening, that's the genesis of my inquire. A red square would be acceptable, but why did he choose the white if it's bad?
     
  8. RSS

    RSS Senior member

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    I'm taking donations.

    I do hope M&F slip and tell us where they are dining.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  9. mafoofan

    mafoofan THE FOO Dubiously Honored

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    This is an instructive example, but not in the way I think you intend. There are two issues here, one concerning the nature of objectivity, and the other about the relevance of relative value.

    1. You mistake consensus for objectivity. Yes, I agree on the fact that a broad consensus of men will generally agree on female beauty. However, that is an objective statement about the male consensus itself. It is not an objective statement about intrinsic female beauty (which, granted, may or may not exist). We can acknowledge popular agreement, but must accept that its judgment remains fallible.

    2. Earlier you chided me for not appreciating the difference between "objectively bad" and "not ideal." I responded by pointing out there is no practical difference here. Let me further explicate with use of your own example:

    Compared to the girl you think absolutely prettiest in the group, the 999 others are relatively ugly. If you could pick one girl for yourself, which would you pick? Personality and everything else being equal, would you ever pick "pretty" over "prettiest?" Absolutely not. It wouldn't matter if you were picking between #1 and #2. The second place girl might be stunningly gorgeous, but she is still uglier than the girl in first place. You will always pick #1.

    Thus, it's pointless to get stuck on defining what is and isn't "pretty" and to what degree. You get one pick and only one girl is ideal. In that scenario, only the ideal is the only right choice. Everything else is wrong. The other girls, no matter how "pretty," might as well be "ugly" or not even exist.

    Similarly, there are many approaches to how one might pair his pocket square to his shirt. You can argue all you want that white and white is simply "not ideal" as opposed to "bad," but you would be missing the forest for the trees. Ultimately, you pick one approach at any given time. You don't get to wear more than one shirt and square in the same instance. So, why would you ever choose the less-than-ideal choice? You wouldn't.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  10. etkl

    etkl Senior member

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    Do you think your "ugly girl" hypothetical works when you move from one culture to another within a particular time period or even among different generations of the same culture?
     
  11. etkl

    etkl Senior member

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    Of course, I was directing that to Manton.
     
  12. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    You are trying to say that a look that you alone--but no one else--identify as ugly is in fact aesthetically objectively/intrinsically ugly. Unless you can make the case for some Archimedian point beyond nature as it is known and experienced by the rest of us, on which aesthetics rests, you have no basis for saying that. Your response is nothing more than your taste/opinion.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  13. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    Yes. The standards hold up very well. If social science is your thing, know that it's been studied.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  14. unbelragazzo

    unbelragazzo Jewfro Dubiously Honored

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    Well here's me two days ago, with white shirt and white square. Personally I think white square is pretty good in this case.

    [​IMG]
     
  15. Manton

    Manton RINO Dubiously Honored

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    Foo, I take it you must hold all your ties and shirts and squares as perfectly equal in beauty, no? We'll leave out suits because different styles and weights can have uses depending the circumstance. And we know your thoughts on shoes.

    But surely you have several silk ties that are more or less interchangeable and can be worn in any season to any occasion, with a multitude of suit-shirt combinations. So, they must all be exactly, perfectly aesthetically equal--right? Because to prefer the beauty of one means that it must be the optimal one, which means that it should always be worn, and the others never worn ... indeeed the others should never in that case have been bought ...
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012

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