Whey vs. Milk

[Noir.]

Most of my endurance buddies go ga ga over accellerade. GU is popular, and shot-bloks are pretty good as well. Surge I'm sure is alright, but not ideal. Being post workout it's probably going to be too heavy to drink when running. No idea on the workout fuel, I've never looked into it - I suspect it's made for lifting though.

For the long-term cardio I think electrolyte balance becomes a pretty big issue (prevent dehydration). Accellerade matches up to body's electrolyte balance afaik. Gatorade isn't ideal for this reason (it doesn't match up), but is fine for shorter term things like a football game. At least that's what I've heard. Couture nutrution used to make these little electrolyte strips I thought were really cool. We never sold them so we stopped carrying them, but they were like the little listerine breath strips for endurance stuff.

As you've probably guessed I'm not really a cardio junkie because of how quickly I get smaller. Keep hydrated and eat enough so you're not tired. Pre is usually pretty carb heavy (few hours before the run - at least for a marathon or triathlon. perhaps not for a little 1-2 hr stint. own judgement there.).

Originally Posted by James Bond

Speaking of Gatorade, I'm getting into the swing of triathlon training and have several 2+ hour cardio sessions in my future. What should I be drinking before and during? I'm thinking of going with Surge since it's always treated me well with lifting, but I know very little about nutrition for extended cardio. My typical cardio before now was intervals, soccer, and basketball.

 

[adversity04]

Originally Posted by Noir.

Gatorade isn't ideal for this reason (it doesn't match up), but is fine for shorter term things like a football game. At least that's what I've heard.
From all the I've heard Gatorade is too concentrated for use in athletics and is thus watered down. Was confirmed that they do this in our athletic department here at school by an ex of mine who works in the trainers office.

Originally Posted by beasty

I make the following submissions to you:

Bodybuilding is not about strength but looking good.

Although training for strength can also give you a bodybuilding look in part, a power lifter's routine does not strictly give you a bodybuilding look.

As such, if your goal is to look good, why is there a need to have something additional ie. strength.

Hence, if you master a routine that makes you look bigger than a bus but does not make you as strong as you look, why does it matter how strong you are? Its not as if you are called upon daily to deadlift and bench to show the people around you how strong you are.
Because there are people who want to look good AND have strength they can use so they judge others looks based on their own goals. This is the way I am because excess mass will hamper any activity I do. Just two different goals and perspectives.

 

[Grayland]

Originally Posted by beasty

I make the following submissions to you:

Bodybuilding is not about strength but looking good.

Although training for strength can also give you a bodybuilding look in part, a power lifter’s routine does not strictly give you a bodybuilding look.

As such, if your goal is to look good, why is there a need to have something additional ie. strength.

Hence, if you master a routine that makes you look bigger than a bus but does not make you as strong as you look, why does it matter how strong you are? Its not as if you are called upon daily to deadlift and bench to show the people around you how strong you are.

Beasty, we have opposing views on this, but I see your point and I appreciate that you made it in a professional manner.

 

[Noir.]

Originally Posted by adversity04

From all the I've heard Gatorade is too concentrated for use in athletics and is thus watered down. Was confirmed that they do this in our athletic department here at school by an ex of mine who works in the trainers office.
makes sense to me. I knew the balance was way high, but I figure if you're just running around and sweating in an exhaustive state, and sweating... idk I can see how it's useful for short term and less useful for long term sports if that makes any sense. Thanks for the inside knowledge, though. Definitely interesting.

 

[James Bond]

Originally Posted by Noir.

Most of my endurance buddies go ga ga over accellerade. GU is popular, and shot-bloks are pretty good as well. Surge I'm sure is alright, but not ideal. Being post workout it's probably going to be too heavy to drink when running. No idea on the workout fuel, I've never looked into it - I suspect it's made for lifting though.

For the long-term cardio I think electrolyte balance becomes a pretty big issue (prevent dehydration). Accellerade matches up to body's electrolyte balance afaik. Gatorade isn't ideal for this reason (it doesn't match up), but is fine for shorter term things like a football game. At least that's what I've heard. Couture nutrution used to make these little electrolyte strips I thought were really cool. We never sold them so we stopped carrying them, but they were like the little listerine breath strips for endurance stuff.

As you've probably guessed I'm not really a cardio junkie because of how quickly I get smaller. Keep hydrated and eat enough so you're not tired. Pre is usually pretty carb heavy (few hours before the run - at least for a marathon or triathlon. perhaps not for a little 1-2 hr stint. own judgement there.).

I think I've got a pretty good grasp on how I'm gonna load for the triathlon...a couple of days of fat loading and then carb loading for a couple. During the race I'll probably have Surge Recovery + Surge Workout Fuel + electrolytes in one bottle and water in another.

For the workouts, though, I'm not sure. Having a decent amount of muscle and keeping the effort high during my cardio (I managed 23.XX miles in 64 minutes on the bike yesterday doing hills), I could easily burn 1200 calories in 2 hours...so when they start getting in the 3+ hour range, it'll be 2000+. For now I'm going to try Surge Recovery + electrolytes + BCAA's and see how that works. I don't have a 3 hour cardio session until February, so I've got some time to play around with it.

 

[beasty]

Originally Posted by Grayland

I appreciate that you made it in a professional manner.

All the time baby, all the time.

 

[rjmaiorano]

JB

Noir made mention of some things that I've had great success with in endurance comps including tris, adventure races and rowing. Accelerade is good but I have found the most success in GU and Endurox. GU both before and during and Endurox after. Main ingredients in each are dextrose and maltodextrin.

During races I use GU espresso shots which are really nice for the roughly 25g of carbs and a little extra caffeine in the espresso version. The caffeine is pretty minimal and the effect may be psychological, but when you are already trashed it seems to give me a bit of a boost. The GU shots, or any other brand, are great right (5-10 mins) before a race cause they don't weigh you down in the least. Block shots tend to be a little heavy on the stomach for me, at least when running, never tried them on a bike.

For post work stuff Endurox used to be my go to... Dara Torres is all about it too. But I've since decided to mash my own shakes with pre-bought dextrose and maltodextrin, whey and glutamine as it manages to be cheaper.

I've completely sworn off Gatorade ever since I became conscious of HFC a while back.

As I am sure you know, glutamine is your friend with this load of training. Training with and without glutamine is like night and day in my ability to recover when putting in a lot of miles/hours.

BTW whats the distance on the tri?

 

[rjmaiorano]

Originally Posted by James Bond

I think I've got a pretty good grasp on how I'm gonna load for the triathlon...a couple of days of fat loading and then carb loading for a couple. During the race I'll probably have Surge Recovery + Surge Workout Fuel + electrolytes in one bottle and water in another.

For the workouts, though, I'm not sure. Having a decent amount of muscle and keeping the effort high during my cardio (I managed 23.XX miles in 64 minutes on the bike yesterday doing hills), I could easily burn 1200 calories in 2 hours...so when they start getting in the 3+ hour range, it'll be 2000+. For now I'm going to try Surge Recovery + electrolytes + BCAA's and see how that works. I don't have a 3 hour cardio session until February, so I've got some time to play around with it.

Forgot to say, IMO using GU and the like during training and often is the best for this.

 

[James Bond]

Thanks rj. It's a mile swim, 20 miles of trail cycling, and a 5 mile trail run.

It's the Xterra Buffalo Creek, just south of Denver.

 

[James Bond]

Also, Noir, as far as Surge goes, Berardi recommends it for his endurance athletes as well as strength/power athletes. It's called Surge Recovery now, but it's the same basic formulation as what is mentioned in the article. It's somewhat heavy if you mix it at the label's proportions, but I usually double the water as I find it too sweet otherwise. Rereading that, I had forgotten how impressive his client list is: • The Canadian National Cross Country Ski Team (Cross Country Canada) • The Canadian National Alpine Ski Team (Alpine Canada) • The Canadian National Canoe/Kayak Team (Canoe/Kayak Canada) • The Canadian National Bobsleigh/Skeleton Team (Bobsleigh Canada Skeleton) On a consulting basis, he has also worked with the Toronto Maple Leafs, the University of Texas athletic department, the Canadian National Speed Skating Team, and individual NFL, NHL, and CFL athletes. And we're supposed to take why's word regarding sports nutrition over his?

 

[rjmaiorano]

^^ Nice!!!

Pretty much everything I do competitively these days is trail and adventure racing. I just watched the Exterra National Championship on TV this past weekend... Made me really want to get back into Tri type stuff as I've been out for a few years now. Do you have much experience with trail riding/running as dealing with the trail can very much make or break your race?

 

[James Bond]

Originally Posted by rjmaiorano

^^ Nice!!!

Pretty much everything I do competitively these days is trail and adventure racing. I just watched the Exterra National Championship on TV this past weekend... Made me really want to get back into Tri type stuff as I've been out for a few years now. Do you have much experience with trail riding/running as dealing with the trail can very much make or break your race?

Living in Nebraska, my ability to trail run and ride is somewhat limited. Fortunately, I'm on a work assignment in Denver through the end of February (and most likely through the end of April, possibly beyond that), so I should have some opportunities to get a feel for it. I just started looking at bikes and have no clue about what I should get, except that I know I don't want to spend a ton for my first triathlon since I'm not sure if I'll do any after this. Any recommendations/advice/guidelines?

 

[rjmaiorano]

Originally Posted by James Bond

Living in Nebraska, my ability to trail run and ride is somewhat limited. Fortunately, I'm on a work assignment in Denver through the end of February (and most likely through the end of April, possibly beyond that), so I should have some opportunities to get a feel for it. I just started looking at bikes and have no clue about what I should get, except that I know I don't want to spend a ton for my first triathlon since I'm not sure if I'll do any after this. Any recommendations/advice/guidelines?

It is very good that you are in Denver to get some trail/running riding under your belt because it is hugely important. As an example, watching the Exterra championship this weekend a champion Triathlete on the womens side was racing in her first trail tri. In all likelihood her condition was better than the field (tends to be the case with regular triathletes as opposed to trail ones) and she was leading after the swim and a fair way into the bike. But good trail riders and runners caught her and she ended up fifth because she was new to the trails.

Running a trail you need to be able to find a solid rhythm and make things feel as much like running on solid ground as possible. This means if possible taking a walk over the trail the day before, and keeping your eyes well ahead of you during the race to be prepared for coming obstacles. If you can find a good rhythm you will be able to get up and down hills much quicker than others and it will be noticeable. The more you run a trail the easier it all gets. As an example, I am not the fastest person out their, I don't run a 4:30 mile, but if I run a good race I can beat those faster runners because I run the course more effectively. Also, in taking on hills, keep your feet under you, if the grade is intense really understand the energy expended with long strides and short ones, some races will have hills that can ruin you if you take them on too hard. I've been in races were the winner, the damned WINNER walked a hill because it was too steep, I know because I was just a few yds behind him.

As to the bike, a lot of the same applies. Have you ridden much in the past? And how much do you intend to spend? Without knowing too much about what you want, I know that you can get a bike for under 1k that won't limit your abilities (basically that if you have the talent you can win the race with a 1k bike). You need a hard tail with 80mm-120mm of travel.

 

[sonicvoodoo]

I didn't read the entire thread so this may be redundant

http://www.fitnessatlantic.com/whey_...hard_facts.htm

 

[Bruce9241]

I mix whey protein with milk. Strawberry milk flavor.