"Wherever You Go, Look Like Joe CEO"

[topbroker]

As a recent arrival in Korea, I hear other ESL teachers complaining that Koreans do not treat them with respect. But this is at least partly because many of them are kids who dress like unkempt backpackers. On the other hand, by virtue of dressing like a company president, I always get treated like one.

This applies in many contexts. Recently I got a first class upgrade on a flight because, I assume, I was the only guy in the waiting area wearing a tie; I looked like first class upgrade material.

Not that I have to stress this so much here, perhaps, but younger gentlemen, always dress above your years and above your station (and, I would add, don't believe any of that nonsense about having to pay your dues in order to wear cufflinks or braces, etc.). You will obtain great benefits by doing so.

 

[Another New Yorker]

Two years ago at the spritely age of 16 I did a gig fetching coffee and sending emails for some sort of dodgy group I still can't explain in WTC3. Everyone there wore suits. It was very strict. Only the biggest shots had working buttonholes, ridiculously cut away collars, Gucci bits, and flashy cufflinks. I at the time had a decent wardrobe for a 15 year old including some nice collar pins and cuff links as well as braces. I had just acquired my first pair of nice shoes which were a pair of CJ monks. It seems as if it would have been very disrespectful for me to be such a dandy in such a conservative and heirarchical enviroment. And should an actual adult do it - it may even be worse.

 

[topbroker]

Originally Posted by Another New Yorker

Two years ago at the spritely age of 16 I did a gig fetching coffee and sending emails for some sort of dodgy group I still can't explain in WTC3. Everyone there wore suits. It was very strict. Only the biggest shots had working buttonholes, ridiculously cut away collars, Gucci bits, and flashy cufflinks. I at the time had a decent wardrobe for a 15 year old including some nice collar pins and cuff links as well as braces. I had just acquired my first pair of nice shoes which were a pair of CJ monks. It seems as if it would have been very disrespectful for me to be such a dandy in such a conservative and heirarchical enviroment. And should an actual adult do it - it may even be worse.

As my OP states, I strenuously disagree. Now, to give in a little to your points, being a 15-year-old in an office environment is perhaps a little different (and a little unusual) -- but even so, in my last corporate job I had a 21-year-old intern who dressed to the nines, and everyone thought very highly of him.

Also, there really aren't too many "conservative and hierarchical environments" of the type you describe left (perhaps thankfully). I am not counseling young businessmen to go ridiculously over the top (although I always did). But I am suggesting that there is nothing wrong in establishing an identity, sartorial and otherwise, early on in the game.

 

[LUBE UP]

Barney's suit didn't earn him points with that barmaid..

 

[Blackhood]

No but it did with the other 299 girls before her.... its all about playing the odds!

 

[topbroker]

I would also add that anyone who is using clothing primarily to fit in, sociologically speaking, scarcely needs to be on this forum. It is easy to fit in; just observe the generally unimaginative, bland way that other men in your office dress, and do thou likewise. There are clearly benefits to be gained from that strategy, as well: You are always "one of the guys," and you are safe and situationally appropriate. But most men who come to SF or one of the other menswear forums want to stand out by their dress (even if it occasionally costs them). Most of them, in fact, cannot help doing so; it's just in their blood.

EDIT: Someone's forum name is LUBE UP? Seriously?

 

[Blackhood]

I tend to agree; dressing one pay-grade up has always been a sure fire way to boot ones career or image.

 

[Another New Yorker]

I disagree. For example there's still a right and wrong way of doing things. Instead of marching around in a poorly fitted navy suit from macy's and square toes for kenneth cole with a boring shirt and generic striped shiny tie, you could don a navy suit made by A & S, with charvet's nicest white shirt, a brioni tie, and a pair of John Lobb captoes. You're wearing virtually the same things, but one person will obviously look much better than the other. There is a right way of doing things and a wrong one of doing things, and, dare I say, an affected way of doing things. Such affectedness is a right that, at least in Wall St. where I see nice clothing the most, must be earned.

edit: I am talking extremes. Sticking out a little is nice truth be told, let it be through your nice ties or your nice cufflinks. But I think moderation must still be acknowledged.

 

[Flieger]

Originally Posted by topbroker

EDIT: Someone's forum name is LUBE UP? Seriously?

He is just honest about it.

 

[LUBE UP]

Originally Posted by topbroker

I would also add that anyone who is using clothing primarily to fit in, sociologically speaking, scarcely needs to be on this forum. It is easy to fit in; just observe the generally unimaginative, bland way that other men in your office dress, and do thou likewise. There are clearly benefits to be gained from that strategy, as well: You are always "one of the guys," and you are safe and situationally appropriate. But most men who come to SF or one of the other menswear forums want to stand out by their dress (even if it occasionally costs them). Most of them, in fact, cannot help doing so; it's just in their blood.

EDIT: Someone's forum name is LUBE UP? Seriously?

Ironically the stereotype of the suit-clad man, however well made that suit, is blandness and conformity.. Assuming you don't wear it like Nickelson Wooster I mean.

And yes, I'm absolutely drowning in class

 

[topbroker]

Originally Posted by Another New Yorker

I disagree. For example there's still a right and wrong way of doing things. Instead of marching around in a poorly fitted navy suit from macy's and square toes for kenneth cole with a boring shirt and generic striped shiny tie, you could don a navy suit made by A & S, with charvet's nicest white shirt, a brioni tie, and a pair of John Lobb captoes. You're wearing virtually the same things, but one person will obviously look much better than the other. There is a right way of doing things and a wrong one of doing things, and, dare I say, an affected way of doing things. Such affectedness is a right that, at least in Wall St. where I see nice clothing the most, must be earned.

edit: I am talking extremes. Sticking out a little is nice truth be told, let it be through your nice ties or your nice cufflinks. But I think moderation must still be acknowledged.

Your point about upgrades of the same basic material is well-taken, although I think that strategy works best in New York and London and several European capitals, where some people at least can discern the difference in quality. In much of the world and in most other American cities, spending big on high quality is purely a matter of private satisfaction, because no one around you notices or cares. They just register if you are wearing a suit, or not.

I strongly approve of moderation for the naturally moderate, and of the "affected way" for the naturally dandyish. No need to say which category I fit!

 

[topbroker]

Originally Posted by LUBE UP

Ironically the stereotype of the suit-clad man, however well made that suit, is blandness and conformity.. Assuming you don't wear it like Nickelson Wooster I mean.

And yes, I'm absolutely drowning in class

I don't exactly disagree with you about the connotations of the suit in general, but that is what makes the other components of the outfit -- tie, cufflinks, socks -- so important if you want to send a non-conforming message. If you want a surefire way of not seeming bland in a suit, always wear a pocket square! Many will comment on it; quite a few women will love it. On a masculine guy it looks dashing and confident.

 

[HEARTLESS-531]

here. here . Good advice all around

 

[amerikajinda]

I agree with the OP that one of the many reasons Koreans don't respect American and Canadian ESL teachers in Korea is because they dress like unkempt backpackers, but the overwhelming reason Koreans don't respect ESL teachers in Korea is precisely because they are ESL teachers in Korea.

 

[topbroker]

Originally Posted by amerikajinda

I agree with the OP that one of the many reasons Koreans don't respect American and Canadian ESL teachers in Korea is because they dress like unkempt backpackers, but the overwhelming reason Koreans don't respect ESL teachers in Korea is precisely because they are ESL teachers in Korea.

Good point, but since I and the other teachers at my academy seem to get enormous respect, I feel it's worth pondering the possible reasons.

(1) We teach at an excellent academy with excellent students (and an awesome director, which is apparently a rarity).

(2) We are all above the age of 30 (the director's preference in hiring), and have a very professional attitude. All of us view ourselves as educators, and several of us (including me) are formally trained.

(3) We teach in a very pleasant regional city, Changwon, rather than in Seoul.

Whatever the reasons, the situation is working!