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Where to start for my first pair?

Bespokeplad

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Wondering if experienced fine folk could help me find my dream shoes of quality and beauty. I also have 2 questions that I've been curious about.

I've been looking at many brands on this forum and goodyearwelt on reddit. And most of the favored brands here, Vass, Edward Green's, John Lobb etc.. are out of my range. So I am left with the rest. I noticed that with these higher cost brands they aren't as elegant, spinning off beautiful patinas and what not as lets say Italian shoemakers. Though both have quality materials, craftsmen ship, the former brands tend to not focus on style, why is that? And I don't think function over style applies.

Which brings me to my second question. Are there any brands that have quality + style? I was looking into PaulEvans and found, even though their patinas are beautiful, they rub off or don't age well. They also use crappy leather.

Regards.
 

The Thai Gent

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Hello there.

In my humble opinion, the reason why most of the makers that you mentioned have retained the more traditional styling is because it is their heritage and that is what they do best. There will always be a market for this type of design. For me personally, after having tried various designs from about 30 makers (ranging from high end to more entry level brands that not many have heard of) from different countries around the world, I have come to realise that what I value the most now are 1) leather quality; 2) construction quality; and 3) proportions. I always find myself selling the more fashion forward shoes after a while and coming back to the same old traditional designs, which I consider to be part of my permanent collection. Others might have a different point of view. We can wait and see what they have to say.

As for your second question, if your focus is on patina work at a reasonable price then Carlos Santos might work for you. But if you don't mind about the brand aspect then I would recommend Dominique Saint Paul from Vietnam. I have a pair and I must say that the quality (GYW, close channel sole) is pretty decent for the price. I have only worn it a few times but it is holding up well. All of their shoes are made to order (lead time about 3 - 4 weeks) and they have a range of patinas that you can choose from. All of the shoes come with Italian crust leather and the patina is applied once you have confirmed your order. Take a look at the link below.



Hope this helps.
TG
 

Phileas Fogg

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Style is a subjective term. Perhaps post a pic of what you like and others can recommend a shoemaker.

Also, don’t conflate price with quality.
 

Panama

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Well you can go for traditional styling from Loake, Barker or Cheaney in the low to mid price point or Oliver Sweeney, Jeffrey West for alleged style. Girling & Gaziano maybe the best of both worlds in mid to high. Then there are Italians, Portuguese and Spanish brands to consider.
 

Bespokeplad

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Hello there.

In my humble opinion, the reason why most of the makers that you mentioned have retained the more traditional styling is because it is their heritage and that is what they do best. There will always be a market for this type of design. For me personally, after having tried various designs from about 30 makers (ranging from high end to more entry level brands that not many have heard of) from different countries around the world, I have come to realise that what I value the most now are 1) leather quality; 2) construction quality; and 3) proportions. I always find myself selling the more fashion forward shoes after a while and coming back to the same old traditional designs, which I consider to be part of my permanent collection. Others might have a different point of view. We can wait and see what they have to say.

As for your second question, if your focus is on patina work at a reasonable price then Carlos Santos might work for you. But if you don't mind about the brand aspect then I would recommend Dominique Saint Paul from Vietnam. I have a pair and I must say that the quality (GYW, close channel sole) is pretty decent for the price. I have only worn it a few times but it is holding up well. All of their shoes are made to order (lead time about 3 - 4 weeks) and they have a range of patinas that you can choose from. All of the shoes come with Italian crust leather and the patina is applied once you have confirmed your order. Take a look at the link below.



Hope this helps.
TG

I would just like to clarify, that I am not that type of person to wear green or rose colored shoes. I prefer to stick to the traditional colors, black, oxblood, burgundy, tan/brown. But in my opinion, a more diverse patina pattern (oxblood with hues of black and brown) is acceptable and can really make your shoes stand out. Simple yet beautiful.


I would agree, leather quality is my first prerequisite. So with certain brands, take Carlos Santos for example, I've seen some people review their shoes after months of use, granted the shoes are used frequently, but even still with proper care and shoe trees the leather developed creases and cracks! https://www.styleforum.net/threads/...ack-appreciation.312954/page-88#post-10227251

Which concerns me because it seems like just another PaulEvans brands, bad leather and a cheap patina to cover it's flaws.

Do you know of any more brands besides CS and DSP from Vietnam?

@Phileas Fogg

Something that doesn't look like full grain or not styled after the leather has been tanned.


@Panama

Thanks! Barker doesn't look half bad. Are they on the same level as Loake/Grenson/Cheaney, low to mid range quality?

As for Oliver Sweeney and Jeffrey West. What interesting and bold styles from Jeffrey West. How's the quality from Oliver Sweeney?
 

Phileas Fogg

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Something that doesn't look like full grain or not styled after the leather has been tanned.

Sorry.....I'm not following you. Something that doesn't look full grain? You want a quality shoe with corrected grain? Styled after the leather has been tanned?
 

Bespokeplad

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Like untreated leather.

What-is-full-grain-leather.jpg
 

Panama

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I would just like to clarify, that I am not that type of person to wear green or rose colored shoes. I prefer to stick to the traditional colors, black, oxblood, burgundy, tan/brown. But in my opinion, a more diverse patina pattern (oxblood with hues of black and brown) is acceptable and can really make your shoes stand out. Simple yet beautiful.


I would agree, leather quality is my first prerequisite. So with certain brands, take Carlos Santos for example, I've seen some people review their shoes after months of use, granted the shoes are used frequently, but even still with proper care and shoe trees the leather developed creases and cracks! https://www.styleforum.net/threads/...ack-appreciation.312954/page-88#post-10227251

Which concerns me because it seems like just another PaulEvans brands, bad leather and a cheap patina to cover it's flaws.

Do you know of any more brands besides CS and DSP from Vietnam?

@Phileas Fogg

Something that doesn't look like full grain or not styled after the leather has been tanned.


@Panama

Thanks! Barker doesn't look half bad. Are they on the same level as Loake/Grenson/Cheaney, low to mid range quality?

As for Oliver Sweeney and Jeffrey West. What interesting and bold styles from Jeffrey West. How's the quality from Oliver Sweeney?
I posted on another thread that I own Barker professional and handcrafted, Loake 1886 and entry level Cheaney's. I couldn't possibly say why the Cheaney's are twice the price of Loake. The snobs will point out that the Loake uppers are made in India. They are all much of a muchness, good quality shoes. I am unable to move up the hierarchy as Church's are not to my taste, and C&J not wide enough. Grenson doesn't appeal, I might consider Sargent, Sanders, and Trickers in the future. Jeffrey West are also not to my taste, and Oliver Sweeney, in a similar vein to Russell and Bromley are not value for money for what they are.
 

Bespokeplad

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I couldn't possibly say why the Cheaney's are twice the price of Loake. The snobs will point out that the Loake uppers are made in India.

Is it still by hand? Assembled in the UK? Because the uppers are done in India doesn't that allow Loake less overhead and better control for pricing, hence low prices?

I had to take a second look at Oliver Sweeney, because of your comment, and they look sketchy by trying to appeal to people with using "good construction" methods and marketing, but using poor poor materials. From others I read from, they do seem to be of low quality and a shady bunch to say the least. I don't think they should be recommended on this forum anymore.

Well now I'm seriously considering Barker/Grenson and Loake not being to far behind. I do want quality for the money, and not some over marketed crap such as PaulEvans. I still want that Carlos Santos patina look.

Grenson seems to be a step up from AE too?
 

Phileas Fogg

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Untreated How? That’s pebble grain leather. Leather is dyed and then the shoe assembled.

pebble grain and smooth calfskin serve different purposes in shoemaking. One is not a mark of superiority to another. They are the same material prepared differently to serve a different function.

Top grain leather is vegetable dyed and that is what is used to build the shoe. Some shoemakers will add additional hand burnishing for additional patina.
 

Panama

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I just took another look at Grenson. Their Indian made shoes are far more expensive than Barker and Loake Indian made shoes. You can get inexpensive Indian GYW's from Jones. Their G Two range look like Hudson or Bertie shoes from Dune/Office or whoever owns the brand. Their top end ranges had kudos 10 to 15 years ago, was it Rose and Masterpiece?
 

paxonus

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Are you looking to purchase your first pair of quality shoes, or a first pair of a particular style of quality shoe, that is, one with a sleek last and a patinated finish? If the former, my advice would be to start with something with a more consistent finish. The patinated finish is not as easy to pair with clothing and can be harder to pull off than a more traditional finished shoe.
 

Bespokeplad

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Are you looking to purchase your first pair of quality shoes, or a first pair of a particular style of quality shoe, that is, one with a sleek last and a patinated finish? If the former, my advice would be to start with something with a more consistent finish. The patinated finish is not as easy to pair with clothing and can be harder to pull off than a more traditional finished shoe.

I am looking to purchase one formal (think dark brown oxford cap toe) and one causal pair of shoes. I'm not interested in crazy/bold patinas, just simple yet elegant patinas, for example, burgundy with black and brown hues. I've seen people pull off a beautifully patina'd pair of chelsea boots with a suit.
 
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Blake Stitched Blues

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I am looking to purchase one formal (think dark brown oxford cap toe) and one causal pair of shoes. I'm not interested in crazy/bold patinas, just simple yet elegant patinas, for example, burgundy with black and brown hues. I've seen people pull off a beautifully patina'd pair of chelsea boots with a suit.

If you're on a budget, I think you should carefully consider the opportunity cost of buying shiny things like patinated shoes. Most of them are hideous but even a tasteful pair are little to no use for the kind of events where you actually need oxfords - conservative office environments/weddings/interviews/funerals etc.

What interesting and bold styles from Jeffrey West

Wrong answer. Jeffrey West shoes should make you feel vaguely nauseous and full of existential dread at the idea that people actually buy those things and wear them in public.
 

The Thai Gent

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I would just like to clarify, that I am not that type of person to wear green or rose colored shoes. I prefer to stick to the traditional colors, black, oxblood, burgundy, tan/brown. But in my opinion, a more diverse patina pattern (oxblood with hues of black and brown) is acceptable and can really make your shoes stand out. Simple yet beautiful.


I would agree, leather quality is my first prerequisite. So with certain brands, take Carlos Santos for example, I've seen some people review their shoes after months of use, granted the shoes are used frequently, but even still with proper care and shoe trees the leather developed creases and cracks! https://www.styleforum.net/threads/...ack-appreciation.312954/page-88#post-10227251

Which concerns me because it seems like just another PaulEvans brands, bad leather and a cheap patina to cover it's flaws.

Do you know of any more brands besides CS and DSP from Vietnam?

@Phileas Fogg

Something that doesn't look like full grain or not styled after the leather has been tanned.


@Panama

Thanks! Barker doesn't look half bad. Are they on the same level as Loake/Grenson/Cheaney, low to mid range quality?

As for Oliver Sweeney and Jeffrey West. What interesting and bold styles from Jeffrey West. How's the quality from Oliver Sweeney?
Take a look at CNES (https://www.cnes.co/). They make very decent shoes. The level of finishing is pretty high compared to those in the same price range. Another I would recommend is J.Fitzpatrick.
 

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