Where Have the Good Men Gone

Discussion in 'Social Life, Food & Drink, Travel' started by Kyoung05, Feb 23, 2011.

  1. Sazerac

    Sazerac Senior member

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    What can you achieve in your 20s now except at a start-up maybe? It doesn't help that the boomers are a larger generation and are taking up all the senior spots at companies. It also doesn't help that partnership/senior tracks at large companies have stretched out longer and longer.

    And dating? Well, you get what you deserve on that front - if you consistently end up with douchebags and skanks, then you should look at the common factor involved in each relationship: you.


    Maybe men should start thinking in terms of not signing up with a company and instead strike out on their own. At someone else's company, you will always -- always-- be making money for someone else.

    Dreaming of that corner office or being able to put your boss's title on your own card one day is a waste of a human soul.

    To paraphrase Tony Soprano: we go around thinking the world owes us a fucking living.

    It doesn't.
     


  2. acecow

    acecow Senior member

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    That's a great article, Bill Smith. Thank you for posting it, I enjoyed it.
     


  3. blahman

    blahman Senior member

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    Maybe men should start thinking in terms of not signing up with a company and instead strike out on their own. At someone else's company, you will always -- always-- be making money for someone else.

    Dreaming of that corner office or being able to put your boss's title on your own card one day is a waste of a human soul.

    To paraphrase Tony Soprano: we go around thinking the world owes us a fucking living.

    It doesn't.


    The risk involved now days just seems so much greater.
     


  4. Humperdink

    Humperdink Senior member

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    Maybe men should start thinking in terms of not signing up with a company and instead strike out on their own. At someone else's company, you will always -- always-- be making money for someone else.

    Dreaming of that corner office or being able to put your boss's title on your own card one day is a waste of a human soul.

    To paraphrase Tony Soprano: we go around thinking the world owes us a fucking living.

    It doesn't.


    The world needs fewer idiots with pointless start-up ideas. It'd be much more lucrative to be the dude who started Zappos.com rather than the intern just starting out for Zappos.com, but at the end of the day, both m-f'ers are selling discount shoes online. Somebody gets rich, somebody gets a decent 401k, but none of the Steve McQueen, "self-made-man," rosebud shit is as romantic nor as personally or socially valuable as you make it out to be.

    "Strike out on your own" is some lame 19th century American Dream bullshit that never had any basis in historical or present reality. So it's appropriate you're quoting a fictional character in Tony Soprano, who passed out at the sight of fucking ducks.
     


  5. Valproate

    Valproate Senior member

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    One of my favorite, non-PC quotes:

    "Behind every successful man is a woman who makes it necessary."
     


  6. Jekyll

    Jekyll Senior member

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    I use Franklin because of his early life experiences, and how he raised himself up from nothing.

    Well nowadays most jobs require a college degree and what not...

    Richard Branson
     


  7. NAMOR

    NAMOR Senior member

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    That's a great article, Bill Smith. Thank you for posting it, I enjoyed it.
    +1 but why is she shitting on "this" woman when she herself has divorced 3 times?
     


  8. Sazerac

    Sazerac Senior member

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    The world needs fewer idiots with pointless start-up ideas. It'd be much more lucrative to be the dude who started Zappos.com rather than the intern just starting out for Zappos.com, but at the end of the day, both m-f'ers are selling discount shoes online. Somebody gets rich, somebody gets a decent 401k, but none of the Steve McQueen, "self-made-man," rosebud shit is as romantic nor as personally or socially valuable as you make it out to be.

    "Strike out on your own" is some lame 19th century American Dream bullshit that never had any basis in historical or present reality. So it's appropriate you're quoting a fictional character in Tony Soprano, who passed out at the sight of fucking ducks.


    Who's saying everyone has to start the next Zappos.com? I'm talking about, say, starting your own law firm instead of working for someone else's law firm, or your own cab company if you're a cabbie, or your own pizza parlor if you're a pizza delivery guy. Maybe you buy a bunch of apartments in foreclosure and rent them out. Maybe you quit a dead-end job and live off savings while you write that screenplay that has been burning a hole in your imagination.

    People, especially immigrants, do this all the time. Native born Americans tend to eschew such entrepreneurial activities because they're both risky and require long hours. It's simply not in our paradigm because we're very risk averse and we've been acclimated into accepting this sort of Novocaine comfort that comes from having a bi-monthly check.

    That "lame 19th Century American Dream bullshit" as you call it is very much alive -- just not among too many Americans.

    FWIW, I wouldn't have had to stones to do this myself had I not been fired in '07 from the only job I had ever wanted. (Fired, incidentally, three days before my second daughter was born.) When I couldn't find another job like it, I had to do precisely what you say is fiction -- strike out on my own. Frankly, I'm a happier and ever so slightly richer man for it. And when I want to go see a movie at 2:00 PM on a Tuesday, I do it. I'm not better or smarter at what I do than anyone else, I just got abandoned in the woods and had to find my own way out.
     


  9. intent

    intent Senior member

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    I hate people.
     


  10. freeAgent

    freeAgent Senior member

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    Who's saying everyone has to start the next Zappos.com? I'm talking about, say, starting your own law firm instead of working for someone else's law firm, or your own cab company if you're a cabbie, or your own pizza parlor if you're a pizza delivery guy. Maybe you buy a bunch of apartments in foreclosure and rent them out. Maybe you quit a dead-end job and live off savings while you write that screenplay that has been burning a hole in your imagination.

    People, especially immigrants, do this all the time. Native born Americans tend to eschew such entrepreneurial activities because they're both risky and require long hours. It's simply not in our paradigm because we're very risk averse and we've been acclimated into accepting this sort of Novocaine comfort that comes from having a bi-monthly check.

    That "lame 19th Century American Dream bullshit" as you call it is very much alive -- just not among too many Americans.

    FWIW, I wouldn't have had to stones to do this myself had I not been fired in '07 from the only job I had ever wanted. (Fired, incidentally, three days before my second daughter was born.) When I couldn't find another job like it, I had to do precisely what you say is fiction -- strike out on my own. Frankly, I'm a happier and ever so slightly richer man for it. And when I want to go see a movie at 2:00 PM on a Tuesday, I do it. I'm not better or smarter at what I do than anyone else, I just got abandoned in the woods and had to find my own way out.


    Law firms may be a poor example, since the way they're set up you end up owning (part of) the firm when/if you make partner. At that point, you're working for yourself.
     


  11. wetnose

    wetnose Senior member

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    Relatively affluent, free of family responsibilities, and entertained by an array of media devoted to his every pleasure, the single young man can live in pig heaven—and often does. Women put up with him for a while, but then in fear and disgust either give up on any idea of a husband and kids or just go to a sperm bank and get the DNA without the troublesome man. But these rational choices on the part of women only serve to legitimize men's attachment to the sand box. Why should they grow up? No one needs them anyway. There's nothing they have to do.
    Uh yeah no. Sperm banks are running dry because donors know they can be slammed with a paternity suit 10 years down the road. Also...invitro is horribly expensive - $10K an attempt and it's not even guaranteed. Plus by the time she needs ivf, she may be too old...and there's all sorts of complications. Plus...if nobody needs us, then what is she whining about?
     


  12. clee1982

    clee1982 Senior member

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    Who's saying everyone has to start the next Zappos.com? I'm talking about, say, starting your own law firm instead of working for someone else's law firm, or your own cab company if you're a cabbie, or your own pizza parlor if you're a pizza delivery guy. Maybe you buy a bunch of apartments in foreclosure and rent them out. Maybe you quit a dead-end job and live off savings while you write that screenplay that has been burning a hole in your imagination.

    People, especially immigrants, do this all the time. Native born Americans tend to eschew such entrepreneurial activities because they're both risky and require long hours. It's simply not in our paradigm because we're very risk averse and we've been acclimated into accepting this sort of Novocaine comfort that comes from having a bi-monthly check.

    That "lame 19th Century American Dream bullshit" as you call it is very much alive -- just not among too many Americans.

    FWIW, I wouldn't have had to stones to do this myself had I not been fired in '07 from the only job I had ever wanted. (Fired, incidentally, three days before my second daughter was born.) When I couldn't find another job like it, I had to do precisely what you say is fiction -- strike out on my own. Frankly, I'm a happier and ever so slightly richer man for it. And when I want to go see a movie at 2:00 PM on a Tuesday, I do it. I'm not better or smarter at what I do than anyone else, I just got abandoned in the woods and had to find my own way out.


    Immigrants have nothing to lose and everything to gain. American dream is always more true for first generation immigrants than for anyone else.
     


  13. Harold falcon

    Harold falcon Senior member

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    Uh yeah no. Sperm banks are running dry because donors know they can be slammed with a paternity suit 10 years down the road.

    What? When has this ever happened?
     


  14. mkarim

    mkarim Senior member

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    Frankly, I thought this article was bull. I live in a major city and I can't tell you how many countless tramps I see running around San Francisco, who work during the day in some dead end office job, and spend their nights hooking up with some random douchebag in the marina. And then they do it all again the next night. This phenomenon is not limited to men; women are in the same boat. People are just staving off responsibility these days. It isn't just a male thing.

    Agree. I see this trend not only across the US but spreading around the world.
     


  15. mkarim

    mkarim Senior member

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    A lot of that is true but they leave out one major factor that has changed which is that women and society in general no longer expects men to do those things.

    Oh you'd be surprised. Many women still not only expect, but demand, that men fulfill their duties...
     


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