Where Have the Good Men Gone

Discussion in 'Social Life, Food & Drink, Travel' started by Kyoung05, Feb 23, 2011.

  1. Harold falcon

    Harold falcon Senior member

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    Wait, what? Isn't this the movie with Bridget Fonda and the psychotic murdering roommate? WTF does that have to do with lingering childhood?
     


  2. IUtoSLU

    IUtoSLU Senior member

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    Agreed.

    But there is some general truth behind the premise. Take for instance the example of the achieving male in his early 20’s during the colonial period. Many were writing treatises on philosophy, running for political office, innovating new products, or managing multi-national businesses. All of course while raising a family.

    To be sure things are different in the modern age, and life spans significantly longer, but I am consistently blown away at the level of achievement pursued by young men in earlier time periods. Levels that do not seem to have carried through in today's world

    A perfect example: Benjamin Franklin


    Benjamin Franklin? Are you kidding me? He was the preeminent thinker of his time. How could you possible use him as the "perfect example" of a comparatively greater historic trend achievement?
     


  3. caxt

    caxt Well-Known Member

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    Benjamin Franklin? Are you kidding me? He was the preeminent thinker of his time. How could you possible use him as the "perfect example" of a comparatively greater historic trend achievement?

    I use Franklin because of his early life experiences, and how he raised himself up from nothing.

    Expecting a life similar to Franklin's for everyone would of course be ridiculous, but earlier on through persistence and natural curiosity he overcame his station. Perhaps less grandiose are the abilities and knowledge of his peers in their late-teens/early-twenties who also achieved what would today be considered monumental successes.

    Another example: William James

    Who would be a great thinker of our time? Zuckerberg?
     


  4. v0rtex

    v0rtex Senior member

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    Who would be a great thinker of our time? Zuckerberg?

    Is it even possible for truly great generalist thinkers to exist any more?

    There's an exponentially larger amount of information to process and manage that makes the likelihood of another Leonardo Da Vinci or Franklin much less likely.

    150 years ago you could know everything there was to know about science, mathematics, philosophy, economics, etc. Still took time, but it was possible. Now it would not be possible for a single individual to read the entire body of work from one of those subjects, let alone understand it.

    There's certainly great people, but they are forced to specialize.
     


  5. gladhands

    gladhands Senior member

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    George Will wrote, like, the EXACT same thing for Newsweek a year ago.

    Author's heart is in the right place, but I think people need to start letting go that part of true adulthood = married with children.


    Exactly. We can't use arbitrary markers to define "true adulthood". I can't tell you how many young thirtysomethings I know who got fucked in the real estate market by buying in the middle of the boom because home ownership was the "grownup thing to do'.
     


  6. caxt

    caxt Well-Known Member

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    Is it even possible for truly great generalist thinkers to exist any more?

    There's an exponentially larger amount of information to process and manage that makes the likelihood of another Leonardo Da Vinci or Franklin much less likely.

    150 years ago you could know everything there was to know about science, mathematics, philosophy, economics, etc. Still took time, but it was possible. Now it would not be possible for a single individual to read the entire body of work from one of those subjects, let alone understand it.

    There's certainly great people, but they are forced to specialize.


    This makes sense and I can accept it.

    But it can not account for the state of arrested development that so many young men are living out this very moment.

    A side point:
    It's the mediocrity that gets to me the most, and that is why I remain so disenchanted with college. Being surrounded by peers who seemingly can't fathom the concept of original thought or creative direction is depressing in the extreme.
     


  7. Master Milano

    Master Milano Senior member

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    Agreed.

    But there is some general truth behind the premise. Take for instance the example of the achieving male in his early 20's during the colonial period. Many were writing treatises on philosophy, running for political office, innovating new products, or managing multi-national businesses. All of course while raising a family.

    To be sure things are different in the modern age, and life spans significantly longer, but I am consistently blown away at the level of achievement pursued by young men in earlier time periods. Levels that do not seem to have carried through in today's world

    A perfect example: Benjamin Franklin


    Well nowadays most jobs require a college degree and what not...
     


  8. patrickBOOTH

    patrickBOOTH Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    This article is ridiculous. I get really pissed off at people who give me shit for not wanting to be married with kids at 25. I don't think this has anything to do with being a good, or bad man. I have different ideas for my life as many younger people do. It is just the evolution of culture. I feel a lot of people are jealous of it.
     


  9. Master Milano

    Master Milano Senior member

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    Is it even possible for truly great generalist thinkers to exist any more?

    There's an exponentially larger amount of information to process and manage that makes the likelihood of another Leonardo Da Vinci or Franklin much less likely.

    150 years ago you could know everything there was to know about science, mathematics, philosophy, economics, etc. Still took time, but it was possible. Now it would not be possible for a single individual to read the entire body of work from one of those subjects, let alone understand it.

    There's certainly great people, but they are forced to specialize.


    Definitely agree with this, nowadays it is much harder to become as renaissance man. From what i've noticed, most renaissance men are usually professors or teachers who have time to pursue their interests in this busy world.

    Not only this, but it seems that our society is forcing us to specialize, think of how schools and jobs are usually limited one or two majors/subjects. People learn to become engineers and doctors, and nothing outside of what they need for their job. It's almost like society became a huge assembly line. In that way, specializing is also dulling our abilities as critical thinkers.
     


  10. Spats

    Spats Senior member

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    ... specializing is also dulling our abilities as critical thinkers.
    SF reveals this to us every day.[​IMG]
     


  11. xchen

    xchen Senior member

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    When she's ragging on Star Wars, bitch has gotta go.

    Star Wars is a good series of movies and all, but if it's truly that big of a part of your life maybe she's right and you actually do have some growing up to do.
     


  12. Sazerac

    Sazerac Senior member

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    A real man should be able to change a tire, drive a manual transmission, shoot and prep an animal for cooking, grow a beard, and bed the buxom redhead at the end of the bar.

    If you can't do those things, buy a Filson bag so you can at least look the part.
     


  13. Bill Smith

    Bill Smith Senior member

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    Star Wars is a good series of movies and all, but if it's truly that big of a part of your life maybe she's right and you actually do have some growing up to do.

    +1
     


  14. Bill Smith

    Bill Smith Senior member

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    What can you achieve in your 20s now except at a start-up maybe? It doesn't help that the boomers are a larger generation and are taking up all the senior spots at companies. It also doesn't help that partnership/senior tracks at large companies have stretched out longer and longer. And dating? Well, you get what you deserve on that front - if you consistently end up with douchebags and skanks, then you should look at the common factor involved in each relationship: you.
    Probably the smartest observation of the lot on this thread. I'm older (fortysomething) and I'll be honest, I know a couple women in my social circle I have known since we were teens that have not left high school in terms with their relationships with men.
     


  15. Bill Smith

    Bill Smith Senior member

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    A counterpoint from scriptwriter Tracy McMillan:

     


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