When does a gentleman fight back?

Discussion in 'Health & Body' started by Lear, Apr 17, 2009.

  1. Lear

    Lear Senior member

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    Cross-posted to Style Forum, General Chat + Body Conciousness and The Fedora Lounge, as I think it a worldwide problem. The emphasis is on gentleman. I loathe the nano-cerebral sub-species who appear to be breading faster than the gentle folk. Scum - every single one of them. They can sense a civilized individual. They know that 'normal' folk, don't attack or kill others for pointless reasons, dislike fighting, or at least dislike fighting over something trivial and pathetic. This gives them an instant psychological advantage. The worst thing a cultured (well, I'm not sure I'd call myself that) person can do is try to engage in conversation with these types. They'll instantly realize that good voice, well spoken = softy pacifist. I'm continually finding myself in situations, where I'm left to skulk away like a coward. But it's NOT cowardice! The logical part of my mind is already racing ahead, and I can see before me: * A call to the police by another member of the public. * A body slumped on the floor (not mine). * Me, now being accused, even though I was merely defending myself. * Hundreds/thousands of pounds worth of clothes possibly ruined. * Getting carted away to the police cells. * Getting arrested. * Having DNA taken and put onto UK database. * Time taken out of the day. * Unable to attend event/gathering you were due at. * If with another civilized individual, you could also cause their day/night/life to be ruined. * Going to court. * Going to jail * Event gets reported in local/national paper I must have the patience of a saint and self-control of a monk. I'm constantly amazed at the bravery of some of these people. The most amusing was when I was continually thumped by a random female office worker. She was annoyed that I'd found an empty queue, that no one else had happened upon. She was literally trying to beat me to the ground. Yet - I'm 6'2", wear a size 48 jacket, bench and dead-lift a respectable amount and look very much as if I can handle myself. BUT EVEN THAT DIDN'T DETER HER! Amazing. I didn't lift a finger. As she left, I merely muttered to the crowd, " Well, I won't be inviting her round for dinner" ( a line from a script). Did I mention that I hate these people. I HATE THEM! I know that I'm not a coward. I once helped a Chinese guy who was crying in the street after he'd been mugged. I only did it because I felt sorry for him. I managed to hold the mugger until the police arrived to cart him off. No one cared about the victim until I had the thief held. Then a crowd of about fifty gathered from nowhere, accusing me of all sorts. Crazy! However, I just can't bring myself to fight another human being. It bothers me SO MUCH that I'm not manning up to these situations, continually letting scum ride roughshod over me. I need reassurance. Please, someone out there - who can very much take care of themselves - tell me that they have this happen to them as well. Tell me also that you never lift a finger. It's always after the event. You run through your mind what you could/should have done, then realize the possible consequences for you and others. It's also NOT the behaviour of a gentleman. What do we do? Lear
     


  2. CDFS

    CDFS Senior member

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    You're not a coward. They are losers.
     


  3. Guy Ho

    Guy Ho Member

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    The first thing you need to do is leave Surrey. That's what I did, and I can tell you that it's much safer in Hackney.

    Actually I'm part-serious - places like Woking seem to breed despair and I never feel safe there.
     


  4. MLIW

    MLIW Senior member

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    roll back your sleeves knock em out then dress your self again and wish them goodye?!
     


  5. MrG

    MrG Senior member

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    This is strangely timely thread for me. I was at a show last night and encountered one of these guys, though I'm not as restrained as you. I told off one guy, his friend got involved, so my friend followed. I wound up screaming with this idiot over a place in line to get into a concert. It was really starting to escalate when my wife basically told me to cool it. I could tell she was really upset with me, so I did my best to ignore the guy. He kept running his mouth to the back of my head (it was even classier when his lady friend started threatening to hit me), and we all eventually got in without further incident.

    To be honest, I wish I had your patience. 99.9% of the time it's better to walk away. I have a tendency to engage idiots when they start acting like idiots, but I've been trying to learn to just let it go. Once clearer heads prevail I'm always grateful things don't get beyond words. It's just not worth the legal hassle to get into a fight at a Buffett concert, or bar, or wherever else.

    In reality you're probably doing the right thing, even if it doesn't feel great at the time.
     


  6. Arch Stanton

    Arch Stanton Senior member

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    From a guy who was raised in a pretty bad neighborhood in the States, I have learned just to walk away. Be the bigger man. In most cases it's just not worth it. When would I fight back, only when me or any of my loved ones were in danger and there was no other course of action.
     


  7. Supertarheel

    Supertarheel Well-Known Member

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    From a guy who was raised in a pretty bad neighborhood in the States, I have learned just to walk away. Be the bigger man. In most cases it's just not worth it. When would I fight back, only when me or any of my loved ones were in danger and there was no other course of action.

    Best Advice.
     


  8. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Not to be an internet tough guy, but I think that guys who know me in person understand why I've been in situations not of my own choosing. For my own privacy, I'd like to leave that at that.

    I've stepped away from more than my fair share of fights, but I've also been in a fair number. The number one rule is to not engage with idiots. If you fight with pigs, you are going to shit on yourself. If you've already broken rule number one, then you have to skip all of the niceties that go with a fight, and get straight to it, without thought of anything else, and with an aim to finish up quickly. No shit talking, no circling around and posturing, no "fair play" (you are not in the ring, which is a sport, and something altogether different). Just get it over with. And don't be squeemish. And don't bother justifying it to yourself or anyone else.
     


  9. jiminbflo

    jiminbflo New Member

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    As John Wayne's character, J.B. Books, said in the Shootist..

    "I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them."

    Also applies to the Wife and children...
     


  10. Lostinthesupermarket

    Lostinthesupermarket Senior member

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    Tricky question.

    By getting involved in a punch up you are pretty much allowing the neanderthals to drag you down to their level. I guess as a previous poster said, you should only get physical when you have been left with absolutely no choice. Speaking for myself. I am far more likely to engage in fisticuffs if someone I care for is being messed with than I am if the nonsense is directed towards me.

    +1 on Fok's advice about getting to the point quickly if there is going to be a bundle. There is no point in preliminaries at that stage and as far as I am concerned Queensbury rules do not apply.

    Even if I have been left with no choice I still feel like I've let myself down somehow if things come to blows.
     


  11. Lear

    Lear Senior member

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    A lot of replies here. Forgive me for not quoting them all, as I'd be running into multiple pages.

    The bottom line is: I am simply NOT a fighter, never have been, not that sure I could ever be.

    Two Hollywood films come to mind:

    1. Stir Crazy: The character played by Gene Wilder is convinced that he can rationalize with brutish thugs, and that all they need is a bit of sympathy and understanding.

    2. ???? (mobster movie): The character played by Sean Penn (a lawyer) gets involved with some serious career criminals. He slowly begins to see himself as a mobster too, only to be given a lecture by Al Pacino, on how you have to be bred into that way of thinking. You don't just become it overnight.

    If there are people roaming this land who'll kill over trivial matters; so must there be those who'll do nothing. If we were all fighters, the human race would cease to exist.

    I still loathe the Chav (Cheltenham Average) types who roam our streets. Maybe I should take up knitting [​IMG]

    Lear
     


  12. Roger Mellie

    Roger Mellie Well-Known Member

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    From a guy who was raised in a pretty bad neighborhood in the States, I have learned just to walk away. Be the bigger man. In most cases it's just not worth it. When would I fight back, only when me or any of my loved ones were in danger and there was no other course of action.

    This is the problem. When consequences might end up being faced by your family it is better to leave it. I had a guy threatening to stab me a few weeks back, and was more relieved not to get into a fight with him because he could easily identify my family, rather than the fact that he was threatening me.

    At the same time it always feels terrible to lose face. I still live in a bad area, and have seriously felt bad about letting people take the piss in order to avoid altercations. The problem is if you get into any type of tit for tat conflict in some places then you are in deep trouble. The police are no help and you are on your own.
     


  13. Big A

    Big A Senior member

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    I actually fight more often than not if the other guy actually touches me for any reason, if only because I've found that if you throw the punch after some guy pushes you (or taps you in the chest, or grabs the back of your neck, or whatever) the fight is usually over.

    Lately though, I've been worried about fucking up my clothes. As my new favorite SF member says "that is the homosex," but it's the truth. I've passed up at least one fight because I didn't want to mess up my suit.

    I don't know if this makes me an idiot or not (the first part, the second part definitely makes me an idiot) but what can I tell you - sometimes it's more fun to slug it out.
     


  14. Tck13

    Tck13 Senior member

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    This thread is kinda weird. I rarely have these kinds of problems (maybe I need to get out more?). I wonder if it's what kind of vibes that one puts out. Other people can "smell" if you're a pushover, doormat, scared, nervous, etc. and they can pick you out in a crowd and they'll fuck with you. But people can also tell if you're not going to mess around and you're assertive. I've noticed that if the latter's the case they'll leave you alone.

    Edit: Plus, if someone gets to close to me (as in the original post), I have no problem just putting my arm forward to their chest and telling them to back up in a calm manner. If they start hitting or pushing then that's a different story. But calmness seems to calm others down.
     


  15. makushin

    makushin Senior member

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    If I sense the situation is escalating and there's any chance I'm about to get tagged, as soon as someone touches me I throw the first blow. As someone else pointed out above, whoever throws the first blow wins most these things. I will take no chance at getting pummeled. I never run my mouth though and always look for a way out of the these situations.

    I thought I was done getting in fights, hadn't been in one in many years. In the last year though my crazy ex-girlfriend got me involved in two situations where I had no choice. First one I got head-butted out of nowhere but managed to come out on top. Guy was huge though and I was seriously lucky. A few months later I was in a similar situation, and instead of taking any chance getting suckered like that, I just one punched the dude as he was coming at me. Dude was convulsing, I felt bad, but he was a complete jackass and he was actually running at me. Make sure to GTFO ASAP because you'll end up in jail or sued.

    Done with the ex-GF now, so I'll hopefully never be in the situation again.

    Anyways, as far as I'm concerned if someone touches you, you have every right.
     


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