What's the story w/ Florsheim? ...

[whiteslashasian]

Originally Posted by dsgNYC

I actually came here for the Florsheim discussion and stayed for the macroeconomics lesson. I love the internets.

This made me lol.

 

[Sean Archer]

Ya so I'm looking at my pair now, which is already a replacement pair. I see little globs of glue or something near the lace holes. Odd...

The brogue stitching feels weak too. Last pair I returned split there. These definitely don't feel like 20 year shoes. I'll be lucky to keep them in working condition for 2. I guess these pale in comparison to the cordovan Hanovers I got from rebel for around $200. I paid $230+11 return shipping for these and they are not worth it.

I have yet to buy a pair of AEs, even at discontinued prices of 109 US but that will probably be my next experiment. Either that or I'll just buy an exclusively cordovan rotation.

 

[ferguscan]

Cool. I started a ruckus.

I will address some points raised in response to my post. If I miss any points that you want me to debate, please let me know.

US Federal Debt Ownership - It was claimed that the majority US federal debt is owned by Americans. This is only true in la-la land. Around half the debt is owned by the Federal Reserve. This is not representative of a real investment of capital, but rather of simple inflation. The Fed simply prints money in order to buy the debt. That money gets into the money supply and is used to bid up prices, thereby devaluing the dollar holdings of everyone else, including legitimate lenders to the federal government. More on this in a sec. Of those legitimate lenders, the majority are foreign. And we all know that the Chinese, for example, hold a big chunk indeed. 5%-10% of the total debt burden (and that's not even including the recently nationalised Fannie and Freddie). I think we can all agree that if 5%-10% of any market decides to sell at one time, it will cause a big big crash. And seriously, with China's potential for productivity, why would their government continue to invest scarce capital in the US government for crappy rates of return? It's only logical that they will get out eventually and invest their capital internally. It's only a matter of time.

If the treasury market crashes, what will happen? - This is the scary part. If the treasury market crashes, and interest rates go up to 20% (don't say it can't happen; it has before), then the federal government will be unable to legitimately refinance their debt (more on refinancing next point). The interest payments alone on the debt might approach, say, $2T per annum. Since the US government only collects $2.5T in revenue each year, and currently spends $3T to $4.5T each year, they will be truly up the creek. They will have three options:

1. Double the income tax. This just ain't going to happen. Americans are already taxed to the hilt and are in debt up to their eye balls. I'm willing to listen to anyone explain to me how this could be done. And whether it should be.
2. Default. Just come right out and admit that the US government isn't good for it's debt. This would be the best possible outcome.
3. Enter the Fed. This is the most likely option, and the most scary. In fact, it's already starting to happen. The fed can simply buy all the debt that nobody else wants. At some point, this will start a horrible chain reaction. With each dollar the Fed prints to buy debt, they devalue the dollars that all other holders of debt will be paid in interest. They will want out also. Eventually the Fed will be the only buyer. This will cause great damage to the currency. But it won't stop there. As per its current philosophy, the Fed will also end up buying mortgage debt, auto debt, credit card debt, etc. In doing this, they will entrench every bad practice that led up to the most recent crash, and institute some new ones also. They will have to print an enormous amount of money to buy up all this debt, and the dollar will crash accordingly. Hello Zimbabwe.

USA debt maturity - The US federal debt used to be issued, primarily, as 30 year bonds. This was a good thing for the government, because it was insulated against interest rate fluctuations. In the Clinton years (I believe), however, new debt and expired old debt was issued primarily as short term notes and even shorter term T-bills. This is extraordinarily bad, because it exposes the government to the possible rise in rates discussed above. Basically, recent administrations have put the whole country (via the government) on an adjustable rate mortgage with a 2-year teaser rate. See the current composition of debt here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ho...ted_States.gif

If anyone wants to argue these facts and predictions, please do so. But try to make your points more constructively than: "The gold standard? That is old. Old things are bad. We are so much smarter since the 1950s!"

Ciao,

Stuart

 

[ferguscan]

No more respondents?

 

[Sprezzatura2010]

Originally Posted by Nexus6

Let us not pick on Florsheim alone for the decline in quality

This is the same fate that has befallen
Bostonian, Stacey Adams, Cole Haan, and a lot of others.
All great shoes in their day...and today, all trimmed down to stay alive.

Not that interested in the economics debate, but as a policy question I think it's more interesting to reframe it thusly:

Would one rather have all these makers, turning out minor riffs on the same basic models to a relatively high level, or one or two makers (AE and Alden) doing that while the market has been opened up to different styles from England, Italy, France, Austria, Hungary, and so on.

Seems that the silver lining to this "fate" is much greater consumer choice.

 

[ferguscan]

Originally Posted by Sprezzatura2010

Not that interested in the economics debate, but as a policy question I think it's more interesting to reframe it thusly:

Would one rather have all these makers, turning out minor riffs on the same basic models to a relatively high level, or one or two makers (AE and Alden) doing that while the market has been opened up to different styles from England, Italy, France, Austria, Hungary, and so on.

Seems that the silver lining to this "fate" is much greater consumer choice.

Why have "or" when you can have "and"?

 

[eg1]

Where is a Mod when you need one to move this thread to the CEsspool?

 

[Sprezzatura2010]

Originally Posted by ferguscan

Why have "or" when you can have "and"?
Implicit in my point is that what killed off the other makers, or caused their officers to make the decision to take them downmarket, was competition from abroad as much as anything else. Not any fairy-dust about the gold standard.

 

[cicero79]

So is that to say that these are no longer up to snuff? http://www.zappos.com/n/p/p/109018/c/3676.html

 

[Mild Mannered]

Originally Posted by cicero79

So is that to say that these are no longer up to snuff? http://www.zappos.com/n/p/p/109018/c/3676.html
Nothing wrong with them at all if you are paying retail. I have 2 pairs of Kenmoors (made in India vintage-current) for a few years and not one problem. They are not quite the quality of Allen Edmonds but they are also less $$ so fair enough for the price. They are up to snuff, don't worry.

 

[cicero79]

Thanks for the advice Mild, it's much appreciated. I'll give these a go this year and report back what I find.

 

[R-H]

Originally Posted by cicero79

So is that to say that these are no longer up to snuff?

http://www.zappos.com/n/p/p/109018/c/3676.html

I saw this style (maybe not be the exact model but looked just like it) at a retail store recently.

The leather upper looked like cheap, shiny corrected grain. The sole felt like plastic. I tapped the sole with my knuckles and it sounded hollow.

I'd love for their to be more quality American shoe companies but all of the expensive (relatively) Florsheim models I've seen look really cheap. Below Johnston & Murphy. Well below Allen Edmonds.

Anyway, maybe I'm wrong. It is just that the longwings that I've seen looked and felt really cheap.

 

[apropos]

Originally Posted by R-H

I tapped the sole with my knuckles and it sounded hollow.
Shoes are hollow until you fill them with feet. Or shoe trees. (j/king) In all honesty, all shoes I have come into contact with from lowly Florsheims to Vass, sound 'hollow' when rapped with knuckles on the sole.

 

[Leander walker]

Florsheim unfortunately closed their madison ave store recently. Couldn't survive no tourists and closed offices in nyc. The Royal Imperial is still a decent shoe,although not what it once was. With most of the florsheim range- - you get what you pay for,which really isn't bad. This is not Crockett and Jones,Edward green or Berluti. But Florsheim has some very comcortable and nice shoes and are simply a value proposition. And yes it's a shame because years ago Florsheim really was a top notch shoe

 

[Fifty150]

We could compare Florsheim, a lower cost brand, to all of the higher priced brands. Not a fair comparison. Hands down, Florsheim's brand is watered down by the lower cost shoes that they sell at malls. Most people now think of Florsheim as poor quality materials, poor craftsmanship, and not even worth the discounted price.

When I think of Florsheim, I recall how Florsheim was the only shoe store in Chinatown when I was a kid. They had a captive audience. For those of us who never left our 12 square blocks, we wore Florsheim.

I have had this pair for about 15 years. They are comfortable. That fit is good. It has a cheap foam insole, which is bad and good. I can toss them out, and insert any kind of insole that I want. Great for people who have to wear those fancy orthotics. The lug soles have held up. Made in China. Nothing special about them. To me, they were just Chinatown shoes.

Recently, I got this pair. Zero break in time. Comfortable right out of the box. My feet don't hurt. I never got blisters. For me, that is a good shoe. Florsheim claims that these are their better quality shoes. Made in India. Opinions vary. Perception is biased. I don't think I would pay $280 for "top of the line" Florsheim. But then there's an online sale, plus a coupon for an additional 25% off the sale price........ I bought them, at the price that I think they're worth.

In today's world, with YouTube, you see "celebrity cobblers" who tear apart these shoes. You get to learn more about shoe construction than you ever needed to know. The only problem that I have, is paying more for a shoe resole than the shoes are actually worth. For what it cost to fix a pair of old shoes, I can buy new shoes.