(What's the Story) Morning Glory: The Current State of Savile Row

[lordsuperb]



Yup. Last September I think? Ugly divorce. Great for customers though!

How so, did he change the cut of huntsman's house style?

 

[Griffindork]



How so, did he change the cut of huntsman's house style?

Well, I'm trying to be diplomatic on a public Internet forum. I think he had ideas about the direction of the house that didn't really sit well with people who had been there a long time. And so they left. For me as a customer it was a upsetting to find that, after 5 years of walking into huntsman and seeing all the cutters hard at work, the cutting tables and cutters had been removed to the second floor out of public view. The messaging was... unfortunate. As for changing the style - not for bespoke. That was set by Colin Hammick 45 years ago and any changes since are stylistic adaptations to current fancy over which Hammick menacingly hangs. But for RTW he changed it drastically, and much to the dismay of many longtime RTW customers.

 

[dopey]



I see. So they license the name but don't control the product?

That's how it worked in the past. Kilgour certainly did that for many years. As I recall, they were even made in the US by HF or HSF (Kilgour). And they may have had some control but probably not that much. For a long time, Barney's sold Huntsman shirts. Long before Huntsman made any.

 

[poorsod]

Some comments: Formal Wear I think one of the reasons to hire a Savile Row tailor is for formal wear. Not that many people cut tailcoats anymore and you can be more certain of getting it right with a Savile Row tailor. This is Butler's via Steven Hitchcock.

HA ha, No in spite having been married to a ballerina fromThe Royal Ballet for 8 years, I'm a terrible dancer! This is how I do it (with some help from Steven Hitchcock - the ballroom dancers will be 10-15 cm longer Photo: Journal of Style Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Here you are:

By lifestylemanager at 2012-02-26

By lifestylemanager at 2012-02-26

By lifestylemanager at 2012-02-26

Here's one from Steed.

Drape vs Non-Drape Back in the days of AAAC and old SF, I recall that the Drapists were more fervent in their enthusiasm than the Non-Drapists. There were much fewer examples from the Non-Drapists. For example, RSS was one of the few Huntsman/Richard Anderson customers who posted pictures. I think that is one of the reasons there is more interest in iGent interest in the drape than the general public. Fortunately, these days there are more pictures of non-drape tailoring, including on Instagram, Tumblr and etc. Anderson & Sheppard vs Expatriates Manton's experience with A&S kind of turned me off from the mothership. This the one of the few pictures I could find of it (including mafoofan's amazing Photoshop skilz).

Chew on this:

On the left is Manton's jacket, untouched. The middle jacket is exactly the same, but with less waist suppression. The jacket on the right has less waist suppression, like the middle one, and its lines are straightened out (a gigantic pain ********** to do, mind you). In my opinion, these images clearly indicate that it's the waist suppression that throws off the jacket. The lines should look vertical, to my mind's eye, but they matter much, much less.

 

[Griffindork]



That's how it worked in the past. Kilgour certainly did that for many years. As I recall, they were even made in the US by HF or HSF (Kilgour). And they may have had some control but probably not that much. For a long time, Barney's sold Huntsman shirts. Long before Huntsman made any.

Interesting. I might do that with AGJiffy and license my name so Barneys can sell **** to h8rz. I'd like to get rich and you guys will still know the real thing, right?

 

[Griffindork]



Some comments:

Formal Wear

I think one of the reasons to hire a Savile Row tailor is for formal wear. Not that many people cut tailcoats anymore and you can be more certain of getting it right with a Savile Row tailor.

This is Butler's via Steven Hitchcock.

Here's one from Steed.
Drape vs Non-Drape

Back in the days of AAAC and old SF, I recall that the Drapists were more fervent in their enthusiasm than the Non-Drapists. There were much fewer examples from the Non-Drapists. For example, RSS was one of the few Huntsman/Richard Anderson customers who posted pictures. I think that is one of the reasons there is more interest in iGent interest in the drape than the general public.

Fortunately, these days there are more pictures of non-drape tailoring, including on Instagram, Tumblr and etc.

Anderson & Sheppard vs Expatriates

Manton's experience with A&S kind of turned me off from the mothership.

This the one of the few pictures I could find of it (including mafoofan's amazing Photoshop skilz).

Poorsod: this is great content. Thanks for this. Do we know the date of that A&S jacket? Do we know the cutter?

 

[poorsod]



Poorsod: this is great content. Thanks for this. Do we know the date of that A&S jacket? Do we know the cutter?

I believe it is circa 2010 by Hitchcock

 

[David Reeves]



Some comments:

Formal Wear

I think one of the reasons to hire a Savile Row tailor is for formal wear. Not that many people cut tailcoats anymore and you can be more certain of getting it right with a Savile Row tailor.

This is Butler's via Steven Hitchcock.

Here's one from Steed.
Drape vs Non-Drape

Back in the days of AAAC and old SF, I recall that the Drapists were more fervent in their enthusiasm than the Non-Drapists. There were much fewer examples from the Non-Drapists. For example, RSS was one of the few Huntsman/Richard Anderson customers who posted pictures. I think that is one of the reasons there is more interest in iGent interest in the drape than the general public.

Fortunately, these days there are more pictures of non-drape tailoring, including on Instagram, Tumblr and etc.

Anderson & Sheppard vs Expatriates

Manton's experience with A&S kind of turned me off from the mothership.

This the one of the few pictures I could find of it (including mafoofan's amazing Photoshop skilz).

I have to admit I like the untouched photoshop one best, the third one just looks sterile to me. I'd like better cutting of the check on the first one though.

 

[lordsuperb]



I must have missed the Huntsman stuff last time I was there. I love the English look but just don't see it here in DC. A single data point of course.

What are you accustomed to seeing in DC.

 

[Griffindork]



I have to admit I like the untouched photoshop one best, the third one just looks sterile to me. I'd like better cutting of the check on the first one though.

Really? Even with those lines running away from each other? I'm glad we've got A&S in the thread but I'm struggling with the jacket.

 

[lordsuperb]



I have to admit I like the untouched photoshop one best, the third one just looks sterile to me. I'd like better cutting of the check on the first one though.

I would ask for a redo.

 

[David Reeves]



Really? Even with those lines running away from each other? I'm glad we've got A&S in the thread but I'm struggling with the jacket.

I don't like the how the check is done either.

 

[poorsod]

You guys should read the whole thread for old SF glory. The best comments include Despos' technical analysis of the A&S coat.

A few observations on comments about your jacket.


The lines of the pattern seem to be intentional in their cutting method. The hem runs exactly on the horizontal line of the plaid and the vertical stripe runs parallel to the front edge. The jacket is cut squared up from the hem. It is normal to see the hem line fall 3/8" to 3/4" below the vertical line in the pattern at the front and taper upwards towards the back. Most have focused on the "A" line of the vertical lines of the pattern but the point here is to keep the vertical line more parallel to the ground. The natural tendency of a plaid is to rise upward from the side to the front. giving the illusion of a short front. The vertical line does the opposite here and may drop too much as the vertical line dips at the front. I like this idea in theory and will try it.


There is nothing "open" about the front quarters. This look/line is manipulated at the neck and a result of their pattern or fitting technique. Shoulder is crooked and/or the jacket has a short back. If you raised the back 1" the fronts would straighten out. The right shoulder is crooked more than the left to help clean up your low right shoulder. This is common to do but not necessary in your case. As a result the fronts look like they are shifting to your right rather than being centered. It is hard to fit a jacket when the shoulder line runs to the back. I think that is their default system as I have seen them discuss this as an A&S feature. My guess is they crook the shoulder to compensate and to lengthen the fronts but the line of this jacket is the effect you end up with.


If this is 3 roll 2, it looks more like a 2 button with the third button added. 3 button jacket would have the fronts and pattern run parallel to each other.


Shoulders, meh. I am not a fan. Jacket looks like it is pressing back against your shoulders and the neck looks too small and tight against your neck.

The chest area is a real mutt. Neither fish nor fowl. Some dimpling from the soft construction but cut too lean. This is the biggest offence to this silhouette, IMO. The waist is not over done IMO.


Sleeves need to be thrown out and recut. Typical to a lot of English tailoring the front seam of the sleeve is too visible. Looks better when it is hidden /turned to the back. This seam falls forward of your thumb and is a distraction. They matched the pattern on this seam but the seam is "tight " and pulling. Sleeve does not fit the armhole and pitch can stand to be corrected. The way the sleeves are set into the jacket has no "richness" or expression. They look flat/dead.

Won't metion button/ pocket position, or the way the lapels roll, those are cosmetic things.

I am not beyond/ above making a jacket that comes out like this but I would be the first to critique it because I could not accept it. I am sure the jacket would render differently seeing it on you than from a single photo online and I make this post because the nature of the forum has so many asking "What do I need to know going to a tailor. What should I ask for? How does my suit fit"

Sorry Manton , I mean no disrespect to A&S but but this jacket does not express the work of an esteemed SR house. It appears more home made. Every element of the jacket draws awkward attention to itself. I just don't see a congruent harmonious look here. The jacket looks "forced and contrived" like they tried to make something out of their element.

I've been there and done that.

 

[smittycl]

Standard Conservative Business Dress. Most folks seem to wear suits because they have to..Folks higher up on the food chain gravitate toward higher quality but still conservative business dress. Fitter folks seem to prefer Canali and Zegna while the beefier go for BBGF. Just my two cents and I could be completely missing the mark.

There's an English-trained tailor with his own well-regarded shop here doing bespoke. I believe his suits are around $5k each, Certainly there is a class of super-rich folks that may be into SV.

 

[lordsuperb]



Standard Conservative Business Dress. Most folks seem to wear suits because they have to..Folks higher up on the food chain gravitate toward higher quality but still conservative business dress. Fitter folks seem to prefer Canali and Zegna while the beefier go for BBGF. Just my two cents and I could be completely missing the mark.

There's an English-trained tailor with his own well-regarded shop here doing bespoke. I believe his suits are around $5k each, Certainly there is a class of super-rich folks that may be into SV.

He's not able to charge that price.