What's the deal with jeans?

[whodini]

Originally Posted by hchamp

Interesting. I assume the $100-200 pairs are all RTW, so when you say "cut" does that mean certain makes are known for their distinctive cuts? And what are the differences between the selvage denim used in these jeans and 501s, especially as far as how well they take the dye, how quickly they fade, their feel and wear?

And if I wanted a fairly narrow, straight fit, dark wash pair that would go well with dress shoes, what would you recommend? Would any of the mall brands work? Or would I have to up the ante?
Not all $100-200 brands are RTW as some mall brands and certain repro companies (jeans "we'd" wear) come at a default inseam of 34"+, the idea being that you can customize it yourself. By "cut" I mean the style and fit of the jean (slim, straight, skinny, bootcut, relaxed, and everything in between). There are brands known for slimmer cuts (Acne), others known for their traditional Levi-inspired styles (Samurai), and something for everyone (Nudie). 501s, the kind you would buy at Sears, for example, are not made of selvage denim. I'd recommend you google for the story behind "selvage" to understand it all, but the long story short is Levi jeans were originally more time consuming to make on wide looms before modern machines sped up the entire process while sacrificing quality. In theory, selvage should be better made than non-selvage jeans but as I've made the analogy before, buying a "100% Genuine Leather" wallet doesn't tell you the quality you should expect rather it tells you the material used. 501s today are cheap copies of their grandparents. Where brands like Samurai, Pure Blue Japan, Sugarcane, etc. come in is that they use a better process than what mainline Levi's do today, but ironically what they did in the past. Fading will appear FAR better than what you can get from a $20 pair. The feel, depending on brand, will be remarkably better. To best explain this, look at the "Post Pics of your Denim" thread. Pictures speak louder than words. Narrow straight fit. I'll take that to mean "non-relaxed" and somewhat slimming. If you wanted to go mall-brand, I'd recommend Earnest Sewn as they're one of the more regarded mall-brands on here. If you're looking for comfort, 7 for all mankind offers a number of styles with a bit of lycra mixed in to give it some give. While you can probably find a deal ($60+) on either brand at a Nordstrom's Rack-type store, the caveat would be that they fall at the $100-180 range retail. At that range, you could be looking into something more..."one of us." A straight pair in "our" brands that are toward the lower end of the price range ($140 but can be less with coupons/sales/deals/etc) would be: Nudie Slim Jim, Nudie Average Joe, APC New Standard, RRL Slimfit or Slimboot. The latter two brands are selvage while the Nudie models are not. Nudie Selvage is usually $250+. Unfortunately the other Japanese brands I listed are also around that ballpark. $140 will sound like a huge leap from $30, and it is, but if you find a pair you're genuinely happy with you'll never look back.

 

[drake]

"Jeans are associated with minorities, drug addicts, slobs, every alternative movement since the 70s, and cowboys, and I feel that, for a person of refinement (and here I am speaking of refinement of more than clothing,) jeans are not even considered. I feel that, for the thinking man, who looks back in history and understands the origin of blue jeans, there will be no other conclusion but to forgo them.

I just do not understand how someone who on any level resents what jeans symbolize can at the same time mindlessly slip on a pair, knowing at the same time that they can be completely displaced by other types of pants, which do not have the tainted antecedents of cowboys and frontiersmen (who were usually lower-class, poor, and possibly in exile,) that blue jeans do."

 

[Eason]

It's true, once you start with raw denim, you won't/can't look back. It all started with the Levi's 514's, I liked them but wanted "real" raw, bought some matchsticks, but wanted something selvedge and a better fit, bought some Lee Gold 101z's... who knows what I'll buy next.

 

[Eason]

Originally Posted by drake

"Jeans are associated with minorities, drug addicts, slobs, every alternative movement since the 70s, and cowboys, and I feel that, for a person of refinement (and here I am speaking of refinement of more than clothing,) jeans are not even considered. I feel that, for the thinking man, who looks back in history and understands the origin of blue jeans, there will be no other conclusion but to forgo them.

I just do not understand how someone who on any level resents what jeans symbolize can at the same time mindlessly slip on a pair, knowing at the same time that they can be completely displaced by other types of pants, which do not have the tainted antecedents of cowboys and frontiersmen (who were usually lower-class, poor, and possibly in exile,) that blue jeans do."

That's a good quote by a pretentious moron, but what gives?

 

[lance konami]

Originally Posted by drake

"Jeans are associated with minorities, drug addicts, slobs, every alternative movement since the 70s, and cowboys, and I feel that, for a person of refinement (and here I am speaking of refinement of more than clothing,) jeans are not even considered. I feel that, for the thinking man, who looks back in history and understands the origin of blue jeans, there will be no other conclusion but to forgo them.

I just do not understand how someone who on any level resents what jeans symbolize can at the same time mindlessly slip on a pair, knowing at the same time that they can be completely displaced by other types of pants, which do not have the tainted antecedents of cowboys and frontiersmen (who were usually lower-class, poor, and possibly in exile,) that blue jeans do."

AAAC, right?

 

[whodini]

Originally Posted by hchamp

Does "stronger workmanship" mean these jeans are largely handmade? What kind of "stronger workmanship" do you get for $200? And what can you expect from the mall jeans?
Stronger workmanship. Again, let's think outside the box. What kind of performance should you be expecting out of a Ferarri vs. a Ford Fiesta? One is made for quality, the other is made cost-effective and at your own risk. Let's put a face to the name because setting a price like $200 can really run the gamut as mall jeans and brands we wear here are about that much(remember, are you buying the label or the quality?). So, $30 Levi's vs. $185 RRL (a label of Ralph Lauren and a brand I own). The thing about higher-end mall-brands is that their name could be for the most part interchanged with Levi's in this example: -Levi's were made in mass quanities in a sweatshop country of your choice. -RRL was made in limited quanities in Japan. -Levi's used low-cost, quickly-produced denim. -RRL used higher-cost, slower-produced denim made on older wide-looms (selvage). -Levi's= Bare essentials. -RRL= Chainstitched hems, hidden backpocket rivets (more time consuming), selvage coin pocket. Ad naseum. The car analogy is the best I can offer as an explanation to what certain brands are doing. Stop looking at the price tag because it is NOT an indication what what you're buying. You can hide quality in a price tag and label fairly easily with mall jeans, but it is when you put it all down on paper that you realize you're not getting a good cost-quality ratio compared to what we wear here. If you still don't understand after all this, then consider yourself one of those people who simply will never get it. Or, you could be one of those people who looks into the brands mentioned, picks up a pair, and gets it. And P.S., Barry sucks. Go Blue!

 

[Slamdog]

i dont look down on people who wear $20 jeans. i used to wear them up until recently. everyone has their own tastes, interests and priorities.

some people buy a $5,000 set of space age golf clubs, $2,000 bottles of wine, or an $800 tube driven headphone amplifier to make music from their iPod sound better. Every market has a high end niche of items that non enthusiasts see as ridiculous. But the people who are into it love them and consider the price worthwhile because of the quality or rarity.

i think its funny that most people think it's so insane to buy a $150 pair of jeans. so many people from so many countries wear jeans almost every day all day. they will spend so much more money on items they use less than once a month, they will gamble hundreds of dollars in minutes, yet they scoff at paying more than $20 for an article of clothing they use for more than a thousand hours a year.

jeans is the one article of clothing i am willing to splurge on. i wear cheap shirts, shoes, and sunglasses. but because of how often i wear jeans, how long they will stay in style, and because of their ability to get better with age, i find it worthwhile to spend a premium on. i like jeans with a particular fit, that are built to last, and that possibly no one else in the city has.

 

[Fuuma]

I look down on anyone not wearing 45RPM-Jomons or better (?), I should wear them more often as the self-loathing I feel most days has got to stop.

 

[amerikajinda]

Some high-end jeans are very artisanal and use natural indigo dye from plants... like PBJ http://www.purebluejapan.jp/enter.html. Other jeans you might consider purchasing to experience natural indigo dye are Studio D'Artisan (SDA) D-01, Warehouse 1000XX (10th Anniversary Edition), Pure Blue Japan Ai-001, and the Sugarcane Edo-Ai.

These cost $510: http://blueingreensoho.com/site/inde...mart&Itemid=28

but some in the store in Harajuku, Japan are over USD $1,000!

"The lengthy fermenting process required to produce natural indigo, up to one year, and the low annual output make this a highly coveted dye stuff. This model is woven with cotton yarns which have been hand dyed by legendary craftsmen in the Tokushima prefecture of Japan using natural indigo. The white cotton yarns are dipped by hand into indigo dye vats repeatedly until the indigo has penetrated the core of the yarns. Most natural indigo jeans have a reputation for retaining their color and this is why. Most jeans use indigo dyed yarns that are white at the core since they have not fully absorbed the indigo. The top layer of indigo will eventually give way to the white centers with moderate wear and abrasion. This natural indigo model holds its blue longer making them tougher to break - but this just adds to their uniqueness."

Here's an interesting pamphlet that sheds some light on the subject from the Journal of The Society of International Natural Dyeing:

http://blueingreensoho.com/site/inde...ask=view&id=51

 

[Stylin-1]

"Jeans are associated with minorities, drug addicts, slobs, every alternative movement since the 70s, and cowboys, and I feel that, for a person of refinement (and here I am speaking of refinement of more than clothing,) jeans are not even considered. I feel that, for the thinking man, who looks back in history and understands the origin of blue jeans, there will be no other conclusion but to forgo them.

I just do not understand how someone who on any level resents what jeans symbolize can at the same time mindlessly slip on a pair, knowing at the same time that they can be completely displaced by other types of pants, which do not have the tainted antecedents of cowboys and frontiersmen (who were usually lower-class, poor, and possibly in exile,) that blue jeans do."[/QUOTE]

Obviously we don't resent what they "symbolize". Fortunately our minds are not quite as small as yours, either.

 

[Brian278]

Originally Posted by drake

"Jeans are associated with minorities, drug addicts, slobs, every alternative movement since the 70s, and cowboys, and I feel that, for a person of refinement (and here I am speaking of refinement of more than clothing,) jeans are not even considered. I feel that, for the thinking man, who looks back in history and understands the origin of blue jeans, there will be no other conclusion but to forgo them.

I just do not understand how someone who on any level resents what jeans symbolize can at the same time mindlessly slip on a pair, knowing at the same time that they can be completely displaced by other types of pants, which do not have the tainted antecedents of cowboys and frontiersmen (who were usually lower-class, poor, and possibly in exile,) that blue jeans do."[/QUOTE]

Obviously we don't resent what they "symbolize". Fortunately our minds are not quite as small as yours, either.

Drake was quoting that from a post copied from Ask Andy in a thread awhile back.

 

[ken]

They make jeans that cost less than 200 dollars, now?

 

[TyCooN]

Men get better with age just like wine. The same thing applies to our raw denim. It's like a symbol of masculinity.

 

[hchamp]

Originally Posted by whodini

Where brands like Samurai, Pure Blue Japan, Sugarcane, etc. come in is that they use a better process than what mainline Levi's do today, but ironically what they did in the past. Fading will appear FAR better than what you can get from a $20 pair. The feel, depending on brand, will be remarkably better. To best explain this, look at the "Post Pics of your Denim" thread. Pictures speak louder than words.


I checked out this thread (it's huge!) and pulled a couple of jeans that were well liked. What exactly should I be seeing here?

http://img102.imageshack.us/my.php?i...cket0074xe.jpg
http://img174.imageshack.us/my.php?i...pcfront5bl.jpg

 

[hchamp]

Originally Posted by Eason

It's true, once you start with raw denim, you won't/can't look back. (

By "raw" do you mean denim that hasn't been preworn, distressed, faded, etc? Is this considered a big no-no?