What's the big deal with "hand made"?

[ferguscan]

People on here seem to have a fetish for all things hand-made, from shoes to suits.

My question is: why?

Is hand-made apparel actually of superior quality to machine-made stuff? For the overwhelming majority of manufactured goods, this in nowhere near the case. Robots are simply more precise and more consistent than human beings, and generate higher quality products.

The classic example is cars. Some (fools?) still romanticise about hand-made cars and car engines as if the "love" communicated to a vehicle on the assembly line by some factor worker results in a superior product. The reality is that robots make cars of superior quality and reliability, and they do it cheaper (see Toyota vs. Ford).

Does the same hold true for apparel, or are there solid technical reasons for the claimed superiority (and the price tags) of hand-made stuff?

Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[Cary Grant]

Well... when they invent a robot that can make me a pair of shoes and a suit that fit exactly every small nuance of my body, to the exact length of each foot, to the arch height, to compensate for the exact and differing length of each of my arms, to the vastly different drop of my left shoulder versus the other WHILE doing so from the exact materials I want with every little detail I want and give me the pleasure of knowing that I supported a craftsman/artisan who is carrying on a great cultural tradition... when they build that robot, sign me up!

 

[FidelCashflow]

Hand-made is a relatively useless selling point for the mostpart. Hand-made is often conflated with old-world craftsmanship. Everything from shoes to ties to suits used to be made quite differently than the cheap machine produced mass-market products we see today. Clothes made the traditional way generally last longer and fit/feel better.

That said, most people aren't even clear on what "hand-made" is. Goodyear welted shoes like John Lobb, Edward Green, etc are all goodyear welted, named after the goodyear machine used to assemble it. "Hand-made" in industry lingo only means a garment that is not created using assembly line type machinery. If you get a shirt that's made with a regular sewing machine, the manufacturer will still refer to it as "hand-made."

I care about whether something is made to a high quality standard, I don't really care too much about whether it's hand-made or not.

 

[ferguscan]

Hi Cary,

I wasn't talking about the design of a garment or pair of shoes. Of course, humans are currently better at taking measurements, fitting an individual person, creating a design and maybe even performing some adjustments during the iterative manufacturing process. And that will be the case for decades if not centuries to come.

But I'm talking about the actual manufacturing of the garment, as designed by a human. Cutting the materials, assembling the materials, glueing, stitching, welting, sewing, all that stuff. Why is a human better at these tasks than a machine.

Take RTW Vass shoes for example. They are not custom made for the wearers body, and yet everyone here goes gaga over them and the fact that they're completely hand-made. Why?

 

[satorstyle]

Not even considering bespoke, it's the feeling that a human being physically created the item and the very next one made is slightly different from your's. Covering a house with siding is fine, but a house built brick by brick with a mason's hands shows a sign of quality that is no comparison between the two.

 

[Xiaogou]

Originally Posted by ferguscan

Take RTW Vass shoes for example. They are not custom made for the wearers body, and yet everyone here goes gaga over them and the fact that they're completely hand-made. Why?

It has to do with an appreciation of something that somebody took the time to make.

 

[Cary Grant]

Hey-

For the reason that machines are still best at one size fits all. They're experimenting with laser measurements and computers are already cutting custom cloth. And I've no doubt someday a machine will tackle individualized suit building too... but even factory suits have human hands in the process.

Take the dry cleaning industry. In an attempt to make them even faster, they've introduced the body press, where a shirt is placed on a manequin torso... they pressed an OTR shirt of mine... boxy and typical... and it came out OK. They pressed my custom shirts and came out worse than they went in. The rig couldn't account for anything that varied from typical cookie-cutter norm.

Partly though, I'm passionate about handmade for what it represents (or should at least): trained local artisans, a rich part of their community, doing something of very high quality that isn't what you can get at every other Macy's.

And I think you point about (some) autos is innacurate. There are some incredibly high-quality handmade autos out there. The Toyotas may be able to make a high quality mass market product at an affordable price point, but that doesn't automatically make them higher quality than the best of the handmade ilk. There are loving cared for Bugatti's now 70+ years old that are in incredible shape. As much as we love our Hondas... that wont' the case for them in 70 years.

 

[Cary Grant]

I'd add also that it really is something you likely appreciate across other areas, too. For example, restaurants- I'd really much rather go to my little neighborhood bistro where we know the owner and the kitchen staff, where they source most things locally and make everything to order than to any of the chains nearby.

 

[voxsartoria]

Depends.

Are you Amish?


- B

 

[dcsenge]

Ha I laugh at your example. A 03 mustang cobra has its valve cover signed by the man that made it. Still since then Toyota supra was last produced common motor that can handle 1000hp without the heads removed. I mean you should side with Ish from Westcoast customs who tears out Italian sewn leather of Ferraris to put gay piping and loud colors in a interior. Its not the quality I would necessarily say, but understanding that someone took the care to make it them selves. They make a living to do it and if they are like me they take pride in what they build. Also it is about character, machines lack it. Your Rockports will last a while and are comfortable but still lacks character that something hand made has.

 

[grimslade]

Originally Posted by dcsenge

Ha I laugh at your example. A 03 mustang cobra has its valve cover signed by the man that made it. Still since then Toyota supra was last produced common motor that can handle 1000hp without the heads removed. I mean you should side with Ish from Westcoast customs who tears out Italian sewn leather of Ferraris to put gay piping and loud colors in a interior. Its not the quality I would necessarily say, but understanding that someone took the care to make it them selves. They make a living to do it and if they are like me they take pride in what they build. Also it is about character, machines lack it. Your Rockports will last a while and are comfortable but still lacks character that something hand made has.

This gave me a headache.

 

[tpynchon]

Originally Posted by ferguscan

People on here seem to have a fetish for all things hand-made, from shoes to suits.

My question is: why?

Is hand-made apparel actually of superior quality to machine-made stuff? For the overwhelming majority of manufactured goods, this in nowhere near the case. Robots are simply more precise and more consistent than human beings, and generate higher quality products.

The classic example is cars. Some (fools?) still romanticise about hand-made cars and car engines as if the "love" communicated to a vehicle on the assembly line by some factor worker results in a superior product. The reality is that robots make cars of superior quality and reliability, and they do it cheaper (see Toyota vs. Ford).

Does the same hold true for apparel, or are there solid technical reasons for the claimed superiority (and the price tags) of hand-made stuff?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Your argument uses false examples in support of an incorrect thesis.

Take for example performance race car engines or my Leica camera made in the 70s or Swiss watch movements. All these products actually achieve higher performance and reliability because they are handmade. The reason this is the case is that a complicated system has many interrelated parts, and while a machine can be programmed to achieve exacting tolerances--lets say to within 1nm for arguments sake--if each interrelated part is only 0.5nm off across all the numerous moving parts, you would still have considerable imperfection across the system.

On the other hand (pun intended) hand-machined and hand-fit parts can be as exacting but most importantly can be adapted to the inevitable imperfection, no matter how minute, that arise in any system. In other words, the inevitable imperfections are fitted together to achieve a result greater than possible with blind but exacting robots; robots that only create pieces of a system rather than understanding how the system needs to function.

This is the reason that whenever cost is not an issue, and performance and reliability are, highly skilled craftsmen run the robots, and fine tune and fit their pieces.

The ease of extrapolating my argument to clothing is easy enough and my post is too long already.

 

[CharlestonBows]

Well, if you want a strict technical reason, at least talking about clothing specifically, hand-made garments will fit better over time, and will last longer. It's the quality and tension of the stitching -- machine sewn stitches tend to be very taught, and do not forgive or develop a memory to the wearer's body shape. Also consider individual variations in each individual fit, but I suppose that point is more relative to bespoke hand made. And with hand made cars, well, I can only invite you to visit a local vintage car show and give a look to a Rolls. When a car is hand made, and each piece individually crafted, each piece then fits precisely as it was intended too. It will look better, it will last longer. And that's not considering the greater care given to a truly hand made car.

 

[Concordia]

If it isn't handmade, you can't say it's Kiton.

Which is kind of a big deal.

 

[ferguscan]

Originally Posted by CharlestonBows

Well, if you want a strict technical reason, at least talking about clothing specifically, hand-made garments will fit better over time, and will last longer. It's the quality and tension of the stitching -- machine sewn stitches tend to be very taught, and do not forgive or develop a memory to the wearer's body shape.

** If true, this is the first reason I've seen which justifies the love of hand-made clothes.

OTOH: http://www.carsurvey.org/reviews/rol...r_spur/r21713/