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What was your starting salary (approx.)?

Discussion in 'Business, Careers & Education' started by Connemara, Dec 19, 2010.

  1. GreenFrog

    GreenFrog Senior member

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    this is such a stupid, pointless argument. no ones going to convince anyone of their viewpoint, so you all might as well stop and let the thread sail on its intended course.
     
  2. Piobaire

    Piobaire Senior member

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    Determing the difference between a US vs. UK thing by quoting a New Zealand website if pure comedy gold.
     
  3. ShaneB

    ShaneB Senior member

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    Determing the difference between a US vs. UK thing by quoting a New Zealand website if pure comedy gold.

    Try and follow the line of logic -

    I gather it's a UK / US divide given that the distinction between salaries & wages is a elementary point in my country; evidently, that distinction seems to have been lost amongst all and sundry in the States (for some reason). But suffice to say, there is a distinction and my citing a NZ governmental department is merely because it provides the most lucid description of the two. Care to explain to me why you take such great offence in differentiating the two types of monetary reward? Why can't you just accept what the vast majority of people already know... why argue over something so very tangential...
     
  4. bingebag

    bingebag Well-Known Member

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    asasas
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2011
  5. Piobaire

    Piobaire Senior member

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    Something I said a dozen or so pages ago...

    Starting salary vs. career upside.

    Opinions on careers that start meh but end up big time?

    Best one I can think of is elected office and then going into the private world as a lobbiest. [​IMG]
     
  6. Joenobody0

    Joenobody0 Senior member

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    Something I said a dozen or so pages ago...

    Starting salary vs. career upside.

    Opinions on careers that start meh but end up big time?

    Best one I can think of is elected office and then going into the private world as a lobbiest. [​IMG]


    This is a good point. My first job payed fairly well, which I liked, but had a flat trajectory. This sort of information isn't always easy to find prior to employment.
     
  7. Dashaansafin

    Dashaansafin Senior member

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    I don't really know whether yours is a genuine question or you're being ever so slightly facetious - http://www.dol.govt.nz/workplace/kno...base/item/1306 I'm quite surprised so many people don't know the difference between a wage and salary; I've always taken it as an elementary distinction... maybe it's a UK/US thing... I'm seriously beginning to think that this forum is populated by children... It maybe news to you, but many many people from all fields and all industries have been severely critical of bankers, and the banking industry in general. And of course, you're right, bankers and the investment banks had no cause whatsoever in the recent financial debacle... unbelievable... My displeasure with bankers and banking industry (generally speaking, because you can only talk about such things generally) is not based on some tawdry jealously (which I addressed above). Many people have been critical of the sector; so please allay your tired and childish accusations of envy...
    Jesus F. Christ are you serious? Do you get all your news from the NYT??? Do you even know what INVESTMENT BANKERS DO?????? The general public is so stupid its nauseating.
     
  8. thenanyu

    thenanyu Senior member

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    I don't really know whether yours is a genuine question or you're being ever so slightly facetious -

    It is genuine. Please tell me what the time interval is.

    http://www.dol.govt.nz/workplace/kno...base/item/1306

    I'm quite surprised so many people don't know the difference between a wage and salary; I've always taken it as an elementary distinction... maybe it's a UK/US thing...


    When you say elementary, I think you mean meaningless. My pay varies 20-30% year to year at the same job. Do you know who else has a highly variable pay depending on performance? Salespeople, and of course bankers.


    I'm seriously beginning to think that this forum is populated by children...


    When Piob doesn't want to talk about it anymore, you beat your chest and shout taunts, yet others are children and you are the lone adult.
     
  9. Connemara

    Connemara Senior member

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    Something I said a dozen or so pages ago...

    Starting salary vs. career upside.

    Opinions on careers that start meh but end up big time?

    Best one I can think of is elected office and then going into the private world as a lobbiest. [​IMG]

    This is what I tell myself I'm working towards in order to fall asleep.
     
  10. ShaneB

    ShaneB Senior member

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    Jesus F. Christ are you serious? Do you get all your news from the NYT??? Do you even know what INVESTMENT BANKERS DO?????? The general public is so stupid its nauseating.
    Expletives aren't arguments. I find it bizarre how some in this industry can create this veneer of complexity and loftiness when in actual fact none exists, hence the general public is 'stupid' because they seemingly don't understand (in your estimation) the nuances of banking. Well, this is false - when I say criticism has been levied at bankers and the banking industry across the board I don't say so arbitrarily: probably the four top and mainly read economics blogs have periodic critiques of the banking sector and certain contributory factors in the recent economic debacle (Baseline Scenario; Naked Capitalism; Calculated Risk; von Mises - these are free-market blogs written by esteemed economists and practitioners in banking; it is for those who want informed opinion and those who want to keep abreast in the wider market / economy). Need one mention the plethora of literature that has been written in the wake of the financial fall? So many narratives contributed to the debacle that clearly I'm not levying all the blame at banking, but for someone to take the line that banking, as a sector, had no affect whatsoever strikes me as absurd. I'm at a loss as to why you think banking should be insulated from criticism, or why you take great offence when someone shows their displeasure with the industry - suffice to say, my opinions aren't based on hearsay and half-truths. I equally find the arrogance and condescension of bankers nauseating, especially when the 'stupid general public' subsidises seemingly private enterprises.
    It is genuine. Please tell me what the time interval is. When you say elementary, I think you mean meaningless. My pay varies 20-30% year to year at the same job. Do you know who else has a highly variable pay depending on performance? Salespeople, and of course bankers. When Piob doesn't want to talk about it anymore, you beat your chest and shout taunts, yet others are children and you are the lone adult.
    Yes they receive commissions or bonuses as an appendage to their salary - so that's a moot point. And there is no arbitrary 'time interval' for what constitutes a salary or a wage - I think that definition adequately determines the differentiation. I haven't thrown any taunts? The whole pointless argument is twofold: 1) Because I don't fall to my knees at the much fabled bankers I'm criticised. For some reason banking / bankers should be insulated from critiques (and all from making the comment that I'm unimpressed with industry - well cry me a river because views of a similar vain aren't esoteric in wider industry or informed opinion) 2) Because I make the valid differentiation between salaries and wages. People for some reason took offence to that - I can't explain why other than they want an argument - now that is childish. But enough is enough - this is really a pointless and trivial discussion - I'm the first to admit that.
     
  11. clee1982

    clee1982 Senior member

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    I have not read anything here, but all I noticed is the mentioning of Investment Banker didn't cause the crisis part.

    Let me clarify on that part, by "Investment Banker" the guy probably mean true investment banking (M&A, IPO, etc.)

    Printing paper (as how any asset back securities used to work) is really structure job and how much risk to hold instead of sold off (even if they weren't able to) is really trading decision (and firm wide risk appetite). It is in that sense Investment Banker didn't cause the crisis. Unless you want to argue that some firm had structure and private side debt issuing both under traditional investment banking instead of S&T.

    As to the view point whether Investment Bank cause the crisis or really just a everyone is just as guilty is different point of view. I don't think there will be too many people say bank is 100% free of guilt in that case.

    The % number there in reality is somewhere between 0% and 100% depends on who you talk to and both end are equally wrong in my opinion for different reason.

    Now go back to whatever you guys were discuss before[​IMG]
     
  12. Dashaansafin

    Dashaansafin Senior member

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    I have not read anything here, but all I noticed is the mentioning of Investment Banker didn't cause the crisis part. Let me clarify on that part, by "Investment Banker" the guy probably mean true investment banking (M&A, IPO, etc.) Printing paper (as how any asset back securities used to work) is really structure job and how much risk to hold instead of sold off (even if they weren't able to) is really trading decision (and firm wide risk appetite). It is in that sense Investment Banker didn't cause the crisis. Unless you want to argue that some firm had structure and private side debt issuing both under traditional investment banking instead of S&T. As to the view point whether Investment Bank cause the crisis or really just a everyone is just as guilty is different point of view. I don't think there will be too many people say bank is 100% free of guilt in that case. The % number there in reality is somewhere between 0% and 100% depends on who you talk to and both end are equally wrong in my opinion for different reason. Now go back to whatever you guys were discuss before[​IMG]
    At least someone knows what an investment banker is/does. Sorry ShaneB, come back when you know the difference between banking, trading and a window teller at a bank.
     
  13. w.mj

    w.mj Senior member

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    I have not read anything here, but all I noticed is the mentioning of Investment Banker didn't cause the crisis part.

    Let me clarify on that part, by "Investment Banker" the guy probably mean true investment banking (M&A, IPO, etc.)

    Printing paper (as how any asset back securities used to work) is really structure job and how much risk to hold instead of sold off (even if they weren't able to) is really trading decision (and firm wide risk appetite). It is in that sense Investment Banker didn't cause the crisis. Unless you want to argue that some firm had structure and private side debt issuing both under traditional investment banking instead of S&T.


    I agree with the gist of what you're saying, but when you look at the P+L, at most notable firms with IBD operations, s&t generates the vast majority of revenue and profit. For any bulge bracket, it's basically a giant capital markets operation with a tiny IBD group tacked onto the side. Not to mention that the business has evolved such that no one wants to hire a lead underwriter that doesn't have a balance sheet. So it's true that the advisory people didn't cause the crisis, but it's difficult to extricate their activities from the larger firm.

    That said, I think the IBD salaries are largely justified, so this is just an aside.
     
  14. Lizard23

    Lizard23 Well-Known Member

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    56k plus 5k signing bonus plus 16k and change bonus in 2005. Biotech. Fresh out of school with BS in Biomedical Engineering.
     
  15. archetypal_yuppie

    archetypal_yuppie Senior member

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    Jesus F. Christ are you serious? Do you get all your news from the NYT??? Do you even know what INVESTMENT BANKERS DO??????


    The general public is so stupid its nauseating.


    +1, I doubt Shane has any idea what the industry does, much less how critical it is.

    It is hard to have complicated discussions with people who think in generalities and blanket statements.
     
  16. clee1982

    clee1982 Senior member

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    I agree with the gist of what you're saying, but when you look at the P+L, at most notable firms with IBD operations, s&t generates the vast majority of revenue and profit. For any bulge bracket, it's basically a giant capital markets operation with a tiny IBD group tacked onto the side. Not to mention that the business has evolved such that no one wants to hire a lead underwriter that doesn't have a balance sheet. So it's true that the advisory people didn't cause the crisis, but it's difficult to extricate their activities from the larger firm.

    That said, I think the IBD salaries are largely justified, so this is just an aside.


    That's why I am not saying the firm, firm is certainly to blame for whatever reason to hold so much risk and leverage themselves to the way they did. What I am saying is when people in the industry say Investment Banker, it's the investment bankers, not the sales, not the structure, not trading, not coverage, just the investment bankers. That's the point I am trying to make.

    Whether Investment Banker's salary are justified or not, don't know, never work on the private side, always been in S&T, though fundamental driven buy side guys usually went through IB first.

    They certainly pull the hours for sure, and under lots of abuse. Pretty sure most of them wouldn't do it if the money were half of what it is. You also got lots of engineer/science/math guys doing finance just because it pays so much better (count myself in), somewhat sad fact...

    p.s. at least IBD's fee is non-risk PnL mostly, I suppose in that sense it's more "transparent", that itself can be taken as more justified. Trading PnL require hedge, whether you flat the book daily, how much risk retention you're willing to warehouse, etc., getting paid on that and consider how the firm is funding the particular desk and how much capital needs to be set aside is a lot trickier for sure...
     
  17. archetypal_yuppie

    archetypal_yuppie Senior member

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    I think you'd be surprised if you saw how LITTLE IB analysts accomplish in their 20 hour "work" days.

    Isn't this a thread about salaries, i.e. not including bonuses? Bonuses can be extremely difficult to forecast and vary pretty widely year to year, especially if you look at the last 5 years.


    Well, you know nothing about me, so you'd be wrong in this case. Why do SOME people not understand what it means when you put the word "some" in a sentence?

    Reread my original post, you have contradicted nothing.
     
  18. otc

    otc Senior member

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    Hey lets get this back on topic and move that shit into CE (since finger pointing and the blame game don't really seem to involve business or career advice)

    I was 42k (well, up to 43k a few months in) with overtime kicking in at 35hr/wk. Wasn't a single week with no OT so I rounded out the year with 60k total plus a 5k bonus. I was promoted right away so I can't say what kind of raise someone would expect or if that bonus was above normal due to the fact that my performance was good enough for promotion after only a year.

    This seemed to work out well as I know some of our competitors pay 53-56k starting with no overtime (which would blow imho) and likely a smaller bonus although many got a signing bonus which my company does not give--although I am pretty sure none of them paid signing bonuses to new hires this past year (if they hired at all).
     
  19. pkblaze100

    pkblaze100 Member

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    57k +3 at a good consulting firm in 06 -- back in school now moving and starting at a top 3 consulting firm soon (hooray!!)

    Turned down banking offers (where i summer interned) - that industry has some of the worse abuse and hours out there...they deserve thier pay and can keep it (PS - 100k post bonus 1st year analyst are very common - though the $$ fluctuates with the market)
     
  20. ShaneB

    ShaneB Senior member

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    +1, I doubt Shane has any idea what the industry does, much less how critical it is. It is hard to have complicated discussions with people who think in generalities and blanket statements.
    There's always subtle undertones of haughtiness when these types of things are discussed; it seems bankers like yourself are so arrogant in dismissing other people and all under the guise of 'ignorance'. You're not fooling anyone; petty insults doesn't constitute an argument.
    I have not read anything here, but all I noticed is the mentioning of Investment Banker didn't cause the crisis part. Let me clarify on that part, by "Investment Banker" the guy probably mean true investment banking (M&A, IPO, etc.) Printing paper (as how any asset back securities used to work) is really structure job and how much risk to hold instead of sold off (even if they weren't able to) is really trading decision (and firm wide risk appetite). It is in that sense Investment Banker didn't cause the crisis. Unless you want to argue that some firm had structure and private side debt issuing both under traditional investment banking instead of S&T. As to the view point whether Investment Bank cause the crisis or really just a everyone is just as guilty is different point of view. I don't think there will be too many people say bank is 100% free of guilt in that case. The % number there in reality is somewhere between 0% and 100% depends on who you talk to and both end are equally wrong in my opinion for different reason. Now go back to whatever you guys were discuss before[​IMG]
    Yeah you're right and I take your point, perhaps, if I were writing an essay or going into some depth about why I'm critical I would have paced my prose a little a better - but I'm not, a made general comment; but let me give you an example: In the 90's and the emergence of the Lloyds crisis when individuals offered criticisms of that insurance market they weren't greeted with accusations of ignorance simply because they didn't differentiate between brokers or names - criticism was against the insurance market as a whole, because ultimately it operated as a whole, even though the brokers merely operated within the remit of traditional brokering role. The exact same principle applies in this sense: when anyone says - and god knows many people have said it despite the inane posturing of some bankers here - that they are critical of the banking industry they're referring to it as a whole. It's difficult to extricate one facet from another in the investment bank as they're all part & parcel of the general operations of the firm as a whole, just like it was in insurance. Mine was an off the cuff remark, and to decry all non-bankers as stupid and ignorant is idiotic bamboozling.
     

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