What shoes fall between A-E & EG?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by jmatt, Jun 29, 2006.

  1. Roger

    Roger Senior member

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    It would seem that John Lobb is step above in refinement to A-Es and EGs.
    Well, absolutely certainly to A-Es--a big step. However, it would be hard to say that wrt EGs. The differences are very small, and, although JLobb (RTW in all cases here) do sell for more than EGs (the JLobb Classic line run probably $100 more, with the Prestige line going for more like $350-$400 more than EGs currently), many would consider the price difference in no way indicative of a corresponding quality difference. My guess is that if you polled SF, AAAC, and London Lounge members as to their choice between the two, the results would be close to 50-50. Some point to the beveled waist found in the JLobb Prestige line shoes (but not the Classic line) as a refinement over the EG waist, but others will point to the fabulous antiquing found on EGs as representing superior leather treatment. At this level (and if we're restricting ourselves here to British shoes), it comes down pretty much to individual preference.
     


  2. tattersall

    tattersall Senior member

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    Well, absolutely certainly to A-Es--a big step. However, it would be hard to say that wrt EGs. The differences are very small, and, although JLobb (RTW in all cases here) do sell for more than EGs (the JLobb Classic line run probably $100 more, with the Prestige line going for more like $350-$400 more than EGs currently), many would consider the price difference in no way indicative of a corresponding quality difference. My guess is that if you polled SF, AAAC, and London Lounge members as to their choice between the two, the results would be close to 50-50. Some point to the beveled waist found in the JLobb Prestige line shoes (but not the Classic line) as a refinement over the EG waist, but others will point to the fabulous antiquing found on EGs as representing superior leather treatment. At this level (and if we're restricting ourselves here to British shoes), it comes down pretty much to individual preference.

    I agree 100% with Roger and will only add that I like them both.
     


  3. The False Prophet

    The False Prophet Senior member

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    Where to JM Weston fall? I understand them to be nearly as good as John Lobb, certainly not meaningfully different enough to bother a relative amateur like myself!
     


  4. tattersall

    tattersall Senior member

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    Where to JM Weston fall? I understand them to be nearly as good as John Lobb, certainly not meaningfully different enough to bother a relative amateur like myself!

    I wouldn't put the refinement of Weston in the same group as Lobb and EG. They're very good shoes with their own iconic and sometime peculiar style. I would put them closer to C&J handgrades in terms of quality, although the Westons come at a higher price.
     


  5. LabelKing

    LabelKing Senior member

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    Well, absolutely certainly to A-Es--a big step. However, it would be hard to say that wrt EGs. The differences are very small, and, although JLobb (RTW in all cases here) do sell for more than EGs (the JLobb Classic line run probably $100 more, with the Prestige line going for more like $350-$400 more than EGs currently), many would consider the price difference in no way indicative of a corresponding quality difference. My guess is that if you polled SF, AAAC, and London Lounge members as to their choice between the two, the results would be close to 50-50. Some point to the beveled waist found in the JLobb Prestige line shoes (but not the Classic line) as a refinement over the EG waist, but others will point to the fabulous antiquing found on EGs as representing superior leather treatment. At this level (and if we're restricting ourselves here to British shoes), it comes down pretty much to individual preference.
    I resent the discrimination.
     


  6. JLibourel

    JLibourel Senior member

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    If you're concerned with value for money, I just received the last pair of A-E seconds of the Cortland in brown in my size on Tuesday. Price: $129. Pretty darn hard to beat for a very marginal perceived gain in quality from things like C&J Benchgrade and whatnot. And the $129 price tag is not exceptional. I have gotten 11 (new) pairs of A-Es for this price or less. I expect to get three more in the near future. That will give me 33 pairs of A-Es, which is a pretty nice shoe wardrobe for a comparatively modest expenditure.
     


  7. Roger

    Roger Senior member

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    I resent the discrimination.
    Hello? What discrimination?
     


  8. acidboy

    acidboy Senior member

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    roger,
    you pretty much took this thread home.

    [​IMG]
     


  9. Roger

    Roger Senior member

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    If you're concerned with value for money, I just received the last pair of A-E seconds of the Cortland in brown in my size on Tuesday. Price: $129. Pretty darn hard to beat for a very marginal perceived gain in quality from things like C&J Benchgrade and whatnot. And the $129 price tag is not exceptional. I have gotten 11 (new) pairs of A-Es for this price or less. I expect to get three more in the near future. That will give me 33 pairs of A-Es, which is a pretty nice shoe wardrobe for a comparatively modest expenditure.
    I agree that A-E represents excellent value for money, but that wasn't the issue here! The thread started with "If Allen Edmunds [sic] is my baseline, and Edward Green (on sale) is my peak, then what else falls in between?" and "[Does] Anything else bridge the gap and fall in around $400-$500?" Thus, we've concentrated on shoes selling in the $300-$500 range.

    You've offered the A-E value-for-money argument many times, and it is a valid and useful point--but only as far as it goes. Sometimes we aren't content with the level of the "value" part of the argument (perceived quality from all perspectives) concerning an entity, no matter how good the value-for-money proposition is, in much the same way that what would be a good poem for a 14-year-old to have written is not necessarily a good poem in general terms. If this is the case, we have little choice (other than trying to alter our cognitions, I guess) but to suck it up and pay more. A second point would be that although you may see the difference between an A-E shoe and another shoe as "a very marginal perceived gain in quality from things like C&J Benchgrade and whatnot" (and it's the "whatnot" that perhaps brings this into clearest focus), others may see the same difference as distinctly non-marginal. To my eye, there is a truly non-trivial difference in perceived quality (mostly in the last and overall style features, and less in construction quality) between my A-E shoes (of which I have eight pairs) and my C&J Benchgrades, not to mention my C&J Handgrades. Trying to suggest that such a difference really doesn't exist except to only the smallest degree is futile to those for whom the difference is ultimately consequential.

    I think that there are many SFers for whom A-E is just not good enough, in certain ways, anymore for particular occasions. The opportunity to buy a large number of them at a very low price doesn't change the perception of them as lacking in certain qualities that now--after we've had some seasoning through the forums and normal life experiences--have assumed much greater importance. If one has had his ideas about qualities of shoes, such as their lines, overall shape, weight, sleekness, finishing details, etc., evolve over time, then the A-E Park Avenue just might not do any more (no matter how inexpensively they can be purchased), and the corresponding C&J Handgrade plain captoe balmoral, the Whitehall, or the Benchgrade Connaught will be required.

    Not meaning to be confrontational here, JLibourel, but just thought that this issue of value-for-money needed to be examined and put into perspective.
     


  10. jmatt

    jmatt Senior member

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    I agree that A-E represents excellent value for money, but that wasn't the issue here! The thread started with "If Allen Edmunds [sic] is my baseline . . .
    Ouch!!!! I got SIC'ed in a shoe forum?!!?!? [​IMG] (spelling error subsequently fixed)

    In all honesty though - you hit the nail on the head Roger. You answered EXACTLY what I was asking, and appear to have understood exactly WHY I was asking. Thanks again!
     


  11. LabelKing

    LabelKing Senior member

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  12. Roger

    Roger Senior member

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    By leaving out another forum:http://www.filmnoirbuff.com/forum/viewforum.php?id=3
    Oh, OK, but by that logic, isn't your post also discriminatory in failing to mention as well such other style/fashion forums as: (a) livingwithstyle.com, (b) men.style.com, (c) askmen.com, (d) mens-flair.com, and undoubtedly others! Ultimately, by excluding anyone, we are being discriminatory, aren't we? I think that when a few examples are thrown out to make a small point, the particulars of the examples are of little importance--far less, for instance, than had the list been used to make a point about what style/fashion forums exist out there in cyberspace.

    Anyway, I do understand that the remark was made mainly in jest. BTW, LabelKing, which of that group are you--i.e., what's your screen name on that forum? [​IMG]
     


  13. Roger

    Roger Senior member

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    By the way, I thought of another possibility for C&J Benchgrades at a particularly good price:

    http://www.newandlingwood.com/category.php?id=6&page=1

    New and Lingwood's Classic shoe line consists of C&J Benchgrade shoes. They will look a little different from the usual C&J-branded models, but that's what they are. They are offered in their annual summer sale (that just began) for something on the order of 180-185 GBP. After removal of VAT, however, this reduces to the 150 GBP point, which will be around $280 at current exchange rates. This puts these shoes at a slightly lower price than A-E retail on dress shoes.
     


  14. dah328

    dah328 Senior member

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    If you're concerned with value for money, I just received the last pair of A-E seconds of the Cortland in brown in my size on Tuesday. Price: $129. Pretty darn hard to beat for a very marginal perceived gain in quality from things like C&J Benchgrade and whatnot. And the $129 price tag is not exceptional. I have gotten 11 (new) pairs of A-Es for this price or less. I expect to get three more in the near future. That will give me 33 pairs of A-Es, which is a pretty nice shoe wardrobe for a comparatively modest expenditure.
    While I agree that AEs at that price provide excellent value for the money, one of the other style tenets to which many subscribe is buying fewer pieces but higher quality pieces. For example, I'd rather have 5 Kiton suits than 30 Brooksease suits.
     


  15. Lino

    Lino Senior member

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    While I agree that AEs at that price provide excellent value for the money, one of the other style tenets to which many subscribe is buying fewer pieces but higher quality pieces. For example, I'd rather have 5 Kiton suits than 30 Brooksease suits.

    But, there is also the tenent that you should have enough of each type of article of clothing in rotation so you do not wear out your clothing too quickly. And another tenent, that clothing should be rugged enough to stand up to daily wear (e.g., the reason more bespoke suits are not made of the higher supers, but rather 100s). So, while 30 Brooksease suits may not be the best option, neither are 5 Kiton suits.

    Which brings us back to AE, the best mix of quality for dollar. The trouble with AE is that because they are the perfect mix, many own them, and some do not want to wear what everyone else is wearing"”which is understandable.
     


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