what makes a shirt 'quality'/ more expensive? pix

[drake]

I guess I don't value the "artisnal nature of the garment." I care about my garments being made of quality materials, well constructed, and fit me well. I could not care less if a robot, human, or some type of hybrid as long as it meets those criterion. (btw - I prefer bespoke shirts made by machine out of ~100s shirting material, so hybrids that I can wear hard and not worry about )

Originally Posted by Edward Appleby

For people who are into more classic clothing (i.e., this forum), it's not just about durability. Handwork is desirable because it preserve the artisnal nature of the garment, and supporting companies that employ skilled craftsmen keeps the knowledge and tradition alive that would otherwise go the way of hand wood and stone carving.

 

[Jovan]

I wasn't on here a year ago but... touchÃ

. I still like it, but it's kind of unsightly on shirts you wear untucked. By the way, get on AIM, bish.

 

[drake]

I don't think split yokes on RTW are any different than non-split yokes. I think there is a post by Kabbaz on this forum that explains why.

Originally Posted by Jovan

Actually a gusset strengthens the bottom where you tuck, untuck, and basically abuse the shirt the most, thus prolonging its life. I requested gussets on my shirt as well as a split yoke when I got one through the Baron. Which reminds me, no one has noted split yoke as a sign of quality yet. I've always found the shoulders sit better when I'm wearing a shirt that features it.

 

[drake]

Do you care for your hand-made shirts more than your machine made shirts? Do you wear them as hard?

Originally Posted by Thracozaag

Ironically though, the hand-made shirts in my collection have lasted, on the whole, longer than the machine-made products.

koji

 

[Thracozaag]

Originally Posted by drake

Do you care for your hand-made shirts more than your machine made shirts? Do you wear them as hard?

I hand-wash them both. And from your earlier statements, do you then prefer midi's then?

koji

 

[drake]

What? No I prefer MP3's...

Originally Posted by Thracozaag

I hand-wash them both. And from your earlier statements, do you then prefer midi's then?

koji

 

[Thracozaag]

Originally Posted by drake

What? No I prefer MP3's...

But electronic keyboards are more durable, and midi's are more "accurate" representations of a printed score.

koji

 

[kcc]

Originally Posted by Thracozaag

Borrelli, Kiton, Matuozzo, Finamore, Attolini and Barba shirts are hardly "gimmick" products. koji
Koji - Of those mentioned, I've ordered Kiton & Borrelli MTM. Would be interested in knowing your ranking based on overall quality?

 

[drake]

I have no clue what you said or how that relates to what we were discussing <--- Engineer not a musician XD

Originally Posted by Thracozaag

But electronic keyboards are more durable, and midi's are more "accurate" representations of a printed score.

koji

 

[dare-]

I have one anna matuozzo shirt. It's gorgeous of course, fits perfectly, but I almost never wear it. It's a bit too delicate.

-dpt

 

[Kent Wang]

Originally Posted by drake

I don't think split yokes on RTW are any different than non-split yokes. I think there is a post by Kabbaz on this forum that explains why.
Where?

 

[visionology]

When comparing a shirt that is say a $300 RTW to a $50 RTW, both 100% cotton, slim fitting with single needle tailoring, would the vast difference in price be more equated to the cloth material or to the details like the MOP buttons or only a small percentage to the two above and the vast majority into the brand name?

 

[Roger]

The_Foxx: Re tie space, although I can appreciate your geometric argument, I've found zero-tie-space shirts to be a problem. You're limited to pretty thin knots, and even with a half-Windsor (medium), the lack of tie space drives the knot down in the inverted-V so that some shirt is visible above the tie knot. To my eye, this is very undesirable; I prefer there to be nothing (except neck) above the top of the knot.

Norcaltransplant: Do you really feel that single-needle stitching is necessary to suggest quality? I'm looking at a Zegna shirt of mine as I type this and notice a double row of stitching running up the side of the shirt connecting the front panels to the back. When I put it alongside a Borrelli shirt, with its folded over seam (albeit single row of stitching) the two seams look virtually identical from more than about 6" away. In both cases, there is a visible strip about 3/16" in width running up the side. I could be completely wrong about this, but I'm wondering whether single-needle stitching is really all that big a deal. As I understand it, single-needle stitching uses lock stitches which are stronger--stitch for stitch--than the kind of stitches used in double-needle stitching, but in the latter case the double row makes up the difference in strength.

 

[The_Foxx]

I think my terming of large tie space gaps as "******" was a little harsh; it's just my personal pet peeve--i personally think it lacks the "sharpness" a well dressed gent asipres to achieve.

Drake, is your comment below serious/ on the level? I mean...jeez....I can only hope that by reading this forum, you come to value and appreciate what only hand-stitching in a garment can achieve, look like, etc.

I guess I don't value the "artisnal nature of the garment."

I care about my garments being made of quality materials, well constructed, and fit me well. I could not care less if a robot, human, or some type of hybrid as long as it meets those criterion

some people are happy with machine-made, mass produced merchandise i guess, but-- who doesn't appreciate the work of an artist, that a machine can't replicate? on the note of "what's so special about the crow's foot stitching of a button," I would cite this as an example of something ONLY human hands can do-- if i'm not mistaken, factory machines cannot replicate this method. many of the points of hand-tailored goods are purely asthetic, true-- but that's part of clothing's overall appeal and function, isn't it? the roll of a hand-tailored suit's lapels, hand-felled shoulders, and of course the buttonholes all come together to improve the overall appearance of the man.

I think you'll find the term "artist" also applies to tailoring fine garments, that represents a longstanding Italian and English tradition (or even a school, such as the one in Penne, Italy) that is really a dying art (remember the old Brioni ad, which posed the question "how long did it take you to obtain your BA? funny, that's the same amount of time it takes one of our tailors to attend school in order to make your suits."

I know it's materialistic and snobbish, but i really like getting the small booklet with my Borrelli shirts, which is signed by the person that made it, or examining the handmade buttonholes of a suit jacket-- I'd like to think that in some small way, i'm helping to keep old world traditions alive in a society obsessed with "right now, fast food, ipods, cellphone calls and blackberry emails."

 

[norcaltransplant]

When comparing a shirt that is say a $300 RTW to a $50 RTW, both 100% cotton, slim fitting with single needle tailoring, would the vast difference in price be more equated to the cloth material or to the details like the MOP buttons or only a small percentage to the two above and the vast majority into the brand name?

It's a mixture of the two factors. Personally, I attribute a lot of the price in a Brioni to name plus decent fabrics. A similarly priced Borrelli, aside from the cut and construction details, usually has a better hand with regards to fabric. Another darkhorse in this argument would be Fray. I'm not a fan of their softer collars at all, but they use some really cool fabrics. Given that I prefer not to pay more than $60-75 for a RTW shirt, the 425 sticker is pretty much prohibitive.

Norcaltransplant: Do you really feel that single-needle stitching is necessary to suggest quality? I'm looking at a Zegna shirt of mine as I type this and notice a double row of stitching running up the side of the shirt connecting the front panels to the back. When I put it alongside a Borrelli shirt, with its folded over seam (albeit single row of stitching) the two seams look virtually identical from more than about 6" away.

Again, its probably more of an aesthetic concern than a difference in longterm durability. Ill wear out the collars or cuffs, or spill something across the front, long before a side seam breaks. I personally get a lot more puckering on the double needle stiched shirts than my single needle shirts--including my Jantzens.