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What is your favorite hand gun?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by dkzzzz, May 30, 2007.

  1. odoreater

    odoreater Senior member

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    I crush intruders with my bare hands. Suckers.

    But seriously, for home defense, almost everyone I've talked to who knows guns recommends a shot gun. Now, if you want to carry it cause you think you're a badass, that's a different issue entirely.
     
  2. Tokyo Slim

    Tokyo Slim Senior member

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    But seriously, for home defense, almost everyone I've talked to who knows guns recommends a shot gun.
    This is an age old debate, but "almost everyone you've talked to" is pretty vague. There are quite a few serious home defense expert type people who strongly reccomend AGAINST using a shotgun as your primary home defense weapon for the very reasons I mentioned. Not only is it incredibly awkward to try and use in most home defense situations, walking from room to room with the shotgun leading the way is a bad idea. Having the shotgun pointed at the floor or ceiling is an even worse idea. The increased length of the gun and its position far away from your body when at the ready gives a close range burgler/rapist/murderer/etc. a lot of leverage against you. Long guns, no suprise, are at their best outside the home, not in it. Collateral damage with buckshot isn't really any less than with a 9mm, its just spread out over a much larger area and will cause more secondary trauma like electrical shortages, gas and water leaks, stray shot hitting bystanders, and etc. Buckshot WILL penetrate several layers of drywall, just so you know. Hell, it will penetrate an 8 gauge metal deer crossing sign on any rural road in B.F. USA at ten paces. Only the most fortunate amongst us have a home with rooms that span more than ten paces across. [​IMG] You can buy low power rounds for shotguns, but does that sound like a good idea or a bad idea? If a peice of shot cannot penetrate drywall, it can also not penetrate very well into the human standing in front of it. You will HURT someone, but you will not STOP them. You are also prone to fire more shots indiscriminately with a shotgun because its not a weapon you neccesarily have to "aim" with. This significantly increases the chances that your loved ones, innocent bystanders, or neighors will be hurt. Also, remember that a 12 guage shotgun using buckshot fired indoors in your typical home has a pretty high probability of causing permanent traumatic hearing damage to yourself and anyone near you. Don't get me wrong, for SOME people a shotgun works. To blindly follow the notion that it is the "best" home defense gun option for everyone is not only wrong, but is the worst kind of wrong. The dangerous kind. Just something to think about.
     
  3. Steve B.

    Steve B. Senior member

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  4. Tokyo Slim

    Tokyo Slim Senior member

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    Of course its not funny, nobody's told any jokes. Well, aside from LSeca.

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Huntsman

    Huntsman Senior member

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    And the stupid farmer thing.
     
  6. Tokyo Slim

    Tokyo Slim Senior member

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    Oh, yeah, sorry. The farmer thing too.
     
  7. LSeca

    LSeca Senior member

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    Tokyo,

    I understand where you are coming from with some of your shotgun info. However, for home defense, it is still my preference. Stopping power is easily the most important thing for me, and no pistol can put a human being down as effectively as a shotgun. This is the biggest advantage, and the most important argument I have. Forget about lucky shot placement with a pistol, your odds of being able to hit a moving target are better with the scatter gun, especially in the dark or if you yourself are on the move or possible firing around a corner without an aimed shot. One thing you can do with a shotgun is use different rounds also, I would not have the first round chambered with buckshot, but rather bird shot. This will not penetrate walls fyi. As far as the argument of being able to take a long gun away as you say there is more leverage, I don't buy it. I think it is easier to dissarm a man with a pistol than an 18 inch shotgun in close combat.

    Again, this is my preference in my home where I know the lay out, others may feel differently.
     
  8. Stax

    Stax Senior member

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    Tokyo,

    I understand where you are coming from with some of your shotgun info. However, for home defense, it is still my preference. Stopping power is easily the most important thing for me, and no pistol can put a human being down as effectively as a shotgun. This is the biggest advantage, and the most important argument I have. Forget about lucky shot placement with a pistol, your odds of being able to hit a moving target are better with the scatter gun, especially in the dark or if you yourself are on the move or possible firing around a corner without an aimed shot. One thing you can do with a shotgun is use different rounds also, I would not have the first round chambered with buckshot, but rather bird shot. This will not penetrate walls fyi. As far as the argument of being able to take a long gun away as you say there is more leverage, I don't buy it. I think it is easier to dissarm a man with a pistol than an 18 inch shotgun in close combat.

    Again, this is my preference in my home where I know the lay out, others may feel differently.


    makes sense to me.
     
  9. Stax

    Stax Senior member

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    This is an age old debate, but "almost everyone you've talked to" is pretty vague. There are quite a few serious home defense expert type people who strongly reccomend AGAINST using a shotgun as your primary home defense weapon for the very reasons I mentioned. Not only is it incredibly awkward to try and use in most home defense situations, walking from room to room with the shotgun leading the way is a bad idea. Having the shotgun pointed at the floor or ceiling is an even worse idea. The increased length of the gun and its position far away from your body when at the ready gives a close range burgler/rapist/murderer/etc. a lot of leverage against you. Long guns, no suprise, are at their best outside the home, not in it. Collateral damage with buckshot isn't really any less than with a 9mm, its just spread out over a much larger area and will cause more secondary trauma like electrical shortages, gas and water leaks, stray shot hitting bystanders, and etc. Buckshot WILL penetrate several layers of drywall, just so you know. Hell, it will penetrate an 8 gauge metal deer crossing sign on any rural road in B.F. USA at ten paces. Only the most fortunate amongst us have a home with rooms that span more than ten paces across. [​IMG] You can buy low power rounds for shotguns, but does that sound like a good idea or a bad idea? If a peice of shot cannot penetrate drywall, it can also not penetrate very well into the human standing in front of it. You will HURT someone, but you will not STOP them. You are also prone to fire more shots indiscriminately with a shotgun because its not a weapon you neccesarily have to "aim" with. This significantly increases the chances that your loved ones, innocent bystanders, or neighors will be hurt. Also, remember that a 12 guage shotgun using buckshot fired indoors in your typical home has a pretty high probability of causing permanent traumatic hearing damage to yourself and anyone near you.

    Don't get me wrong, for SOME people a shotgun works. To blindly follow the notion that it is the "best" home defense gun option for everyone is not only wrong, but is the worst kind of wrong. The dangerous kind.

    Just something to think about.


    damn, that makes sense too.
     
  10. Huntsman

    Huntsman Senior member

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    This is why no one can decide for someone else.
     
  11. Pennglock

    Pennglock Senior member

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    My favorite handgun is the Glock, but understand Im a little biased.

    For the purposes you describe, a snub-nose Smith and Wesson revolver sounds like the gun. I think they go for about $300 new. Just drop it in your coat pocket and go. It's small and light enough to where it's not much of a nuisance, and you'll carry it more often. Having a gun that's comfy is more important than any caliber debate, if you ask me.

    Don't get sucked into the 9mm vs. .40 vs .45 debate. There may have once been some merit to choosing a .45 over 9mm, but modern hollow-point design has brought the performance of all the major handgun calibers so close together that it really doesn't matter what you choose. I see no real advantage at all in choosing the .40 over the more controllable 9mm.
     
  12. LSeca

    LSeca Senior member

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    This is why no one can decide for someone else.

    True statement, agree completely.



    PS Everyone needs a noisy cricket [​IMG]
     
  13. Stax

    Stax Senior member

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    This is why no one can decide for someone else.

    I'll leave the choice to my bodyguards.
     
  14. Tokyo Slim

    Tokyo Slim Senior member

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    Tokyo, I understand where you are coming from with some of your shotgun info. However, for home defense, it is still my preference. Stopping power is easily the most important thing for me, and no pistol can put a human being down as effectively as a shotgun. This is the biggest advantage, and the most important argument I have. Forget about lucky shot placement with a pistol, your odds of being able to hit a moving target are better with the scatter gun, especially in the dark or if you yourself are on the move or possible firing around a corner without an aimed shot. One thing you can do with a shotgun is use different rounds also, I would not have the first round chambered with buckshot, but rather bird shot. This will not penetrate walls fyi. As far as the argument of being able to take a long gun away as you say there is more leverage, I don't buy it. I think it is easier to dissarm a man with a pistol than an 18 inch shotgun in close combat. Again, this is my preference in my home where I know the lay out, others may feel differently.
    So let me get this straight, you buy a shotgun based solely for stopping power, then you load your first shot with a round that is weak enough that it might or might not completely disable the attacker. Interesting. I know two people who have been shot at fairly close range with bird shot. They are both still very alive. I'm sure it hurts real bad though. Hell, Cheney shot some dude almost point blank with birdshot, full in the chest, and he lived. Just imagine if that other guy was just winged, and crazy, and hopped up on PCP, and wanting to steal your soul. You may not buy it, but that doesn't mean its wrong. It is comparitively much easier to disarm someone with a long gun than a pistol in close quarters combat. I hope you never have find that out the hard way. Regardless of my opinion on the matter, or even the tactical benefits of a handgun over a long gun, the best gun for home defense is the one you are most comfortable with. That is the one in a life or death situation that you will be able to use instinctively. (and hopefully correctly) It just never made much sense to me to become instinctively familiar with a gun who's sole benefit is stopping power, and who's downsides are so great. Shotguns encourage you to be sloppy, firing at moving objects in the dark is horrible. I hope you realize how stupid that is. One of the main benefits of a handgun is that it leaves one of your hands free to flip a light switch, use a flashlight, throw something as a distraction, or call 911. Much more difficult to do with a weapon that demands two handed operation. Back when I had a gun, I had an 18 inch Winchester Defender 1300, and I never would have considered using it in my house. Ever. I'd have reached for the Kabar next to my bed first and foremost, and I still would.
     
  15. LSeca

    LSeca Senior member

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    So let me get this straight, you buy a shotgun based solely for stopping power, then you load your first shot with a round that is weak enough that it might or might not completely disable the attacker. Interesting. I know two people who have been shot at fairly close range with bird shot. They are both still very alive. I'm sure it hurts real bad though.

    Yes this is how I load my first round, it is great stopping power. I said stopping power was most important to me, not neccessarily killing power. Shoot anyone with a 12 gauge at fairly close quarters (a house) with it and they will go down rather fast. You may want to look into why the Army is issuing alot of Mossberg 12 ga pumps in Iraq for this very reason.

    It isn't easier to disarm someone with a short barrel shotgun with a full stock than a pistol, sorry. There are no firearms that encourage me to be sloppy. These are dangerous tools that need to be used with caution. You can use a short shotgun with one hand, these are not hunting rifles here...no that long.

    Too bad you felt more comfortable with the iron bar than the shotgun. You should have practiced with the Winchester more.
     
  16. Tokyo Slim

    Tokyo Slim Senior member

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    Yes this is how I load my first round, it is great stopping power. I said stopping power was most important to me, not neccessarily killing power. Shoot anyone with a 12 gauge at fairly close quarters (a house) with it and they will go down rather fast. You may want to look into why the Army is issuing alot of Mossberg 12 ga pumps in Iraq for this very reason.
    The US army is issuing soldiers with bird shot? I doubt it.
    Less chance of me accidentally killing my next door or downstairs neighbor with a knife while defending myself in my living room. Its a courtesy thing.
     
  17. LSeca

    LSeca Senior member

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    The US army is issuing soldiers with bird shot? I doubt it.

    I doubt it too, but I didn't say they were using this round either. Fwiw, I didn't say I didn't use buck in my remaining rounds , I did say the first round.

    I see you own a knife too, be careful and don't cut yourself.
     
  18. JLibourel

    JLibourel Senior member

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    Anent the shotgun issue, I'll have to second my pal Massad Ayoob's remark that he once made to me on using birdshot for home defense, "Birdshot only makes sense if you expect the first guy through the door to be a partridge!"

    Buckshot as a manstopper is very overrated in the popular imagination. Jim Cirillo told me that when he was on the NYPD Stakeout Squad they never had a one-stop shot with buckshot. He mentioned incidents of where guys ran for blocks with full loads of 00 in the upper torso. According to Evan Marshall's stopping statistics, buckshot loads are no better stoppers than many of the more effective handgun loads.

    What are excellent stoppers from shotguns are rifled slugs. According to Cirillo, the NYPD Stakeout Squad never had a stopping failure with slugs. Marshall rates them 98% stoppers, which is about as good as it gets. The downside to slugs in a home defense gun is that they penetrate like mad!
     
  19. Tokyo Slim

    Tokyo Slim Senior member

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    I doubt it too, but I didn't say they were using this round either. Fwiw, I didn't say I didn't use buck in my remaining rounds , I did say the first round.

    I'm just trying to figure out the point. WHY? Why would you load your first shot with something that only has (in my estimation) a 50/50 shot of incapacitating your target... when the main reason you got the shotgun is for the stopping power? If you have to shoot someone two or more times with the shotgun, there is no difference between that and a pistol. If anything, you should start with a 00 buck and have the rest as rifled slugs.

    I have a Kabar next to my bed and a SOG pentagon in the car. I don't own a gun until approximately 2011.
     
  20. Tokyo Slim

    Tokyo Slim Senior member

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    Mas is the man. I'm glad I'm not the only one here who's thought of this stuff.
    If I had a ranch and a long gun made more sense to me, I'd probably go with a slug gun and a .308.

    Plus, slugs are just fun to shoot. Not indoors though.
     

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