- Oct 5, 2015
- Reaction score
This stupid thread arrived…exactly where I thought it would.
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yes chino is usually mercerized yarn which gives sheen and durability and a somewhat more slippery hand imho , denim warp gets sized and dyed with indigo as stfThey're both cotton twills, but they definitely tend to feel different. I know that Denim is, formally, a warp faced 2:1 or 3:1 cotton twill with an indigo warp and white weft, but that doesn't explain the way in which Chino is airy, and sometimes sort of waxy-ish... Is chino cotton treated in some way? Is chino a denser or looser weave? What's the difference?
1. I agree with others that referring to all chinos generically as "khakis" is stupid and we shouldn't feed into it.Nobody needs a guide to differentiate between khakis and jeans.
Now this is helpful. Thicker yarns explain coarser textures and less wrinkling. I know mercerized cotton can be used for denim too, but that's something to dig into.yes chino is usually mercerized yarn which gives sheen and durability and a somewhat more slippery hand imho , denim warp gets sized and dyed with indigo as stf
denim singles tend to run beefier than chino ( both warp and woof ) , all else being equal that most likely means chino is comparatively overspun as there is a direct relationship between grist and twist for integrity of yarn
these are both military / workwear fabrics and built for durable service .
a reasonably deep question : how to account for the differences in feel , performance , and aesthetic between chino and denim , given the common structural dnas of cotton and twill ?... it's something I want to understand deeply to be able to write the guide effectively...
Fuck, this is helpful and parts of it went over my head. I definitely need to read more about the Z/S dichotomy. I didn't realize that chino yarns could be piled, but apparently piled yarns are common and don't always make piled fabrics?a reasonably deep question : how to account for the differences in feel , performance , and aesthetic between chino and denim , given the common structural dnas of cotton and twill ?
let's filet this !
i've harvested a couple of samples to glean from , one is vintage prob 70s typical 13 oz denim from a random roll i have around; the other is from a dockers miusa capsule that i wore out and held onto the corpse for patching etc .
let's take a look :
View attachment 1823306
here are the right side of the fabrics , showing opposite bias . if we wanted to we could fit a straight edge to those biases and it would tell us a lot about the comparative relationship between warp and weft .
View attachment 1823305
here's the wrong side , again we can easily see that the chino bias is somewhat steeper
View attachment 1823307
the lightbox view . from here we can practically count the number of picks and warps , with a ruler in frame we'd have the measurements . we can also see the wiggle inherent in denim against the uniformity of chino (i hope you are seeing this ?) . i just taped my samples to a sunny window - don't look directly at the sun folks , it will only make you as crazy as i am .
ok don't stop . now let's pick apart the yarns .
first the weft :
chino on the left , denim on the right . first thing we can see is the chino weft is plied ! it looks to be a pair of yarns in S twist ( presumably the singles are spun as z but this is getting fairly fine for my eyes ) , the denim is a fatter single , spun as Z twist .
View attachment 1823317
now the warp :
as in the weft the chino warp is plied ,
View attachment 1823319
this is probably the most important diff between the fabrics imho , both warp and weft are composed of plied yarns while denim is made of singles . the denim warp is z spun and single , the chino warp is a pair of singles - most likely z spun and plied s . ( this is the reason for the opposite biases in the first pic ) ...
i haven't bothered to parse the differences in grist , but the component singles are far finer in chino than denim . the heavier unorganized weft probably accounts for the sponginess of denim compared to the relative flatness of chino .
more i could offer but i'lll leave the rest