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What is the deal with is Kirby Allison’s business model?

Nobilis Animus

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In Machiavelli's time the Republic of Venice had already been in existence about 700 years.
For much of that time it was a leading Mediterranean and Adriatic naval and commercial
power. It was essentially a commercial oligarchy governed by A Doge (Duke) and an
hereditary Senate. Not democratic in our sense of the term.

HA! Tell that to the ignoramuses that keep calling my country a democracy, when we have a hereditary monarch and an essentially oligarchic senate. (both of which I'm fine with)
 

othertravel

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HA! Tell that to the ignoramuses that keep calling my country a democracy, when we have a hereditary monarch and an essentially oligarchic senate. (both of which I'm fine with)
But it is a parliamentary democracy. I don’t think the senate has the features of an oligarchy.
 

JFWR

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I'm cool with Venetian aristocracy as a republican model going forward. Just so long as I don't ruin my shoes in the floods.
 

Nobilis Animus

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But it is a parliamentary democracy. I don’t think the senate has the features of an oligarchy.
Not to delve into this too deeply, but it's actually a constitutional monarchy. The only democratic thing in Canada is voting for members of parliament - no election of the head-of-state (the Queen/governor-general), and the PM doesn't even direct the army, much less make all the laws. The senate is chosen from a small number of people (hence oligarchy) and appointed, not voted into position.

We balance democratic, oligarchic, and monarchic elements. That's how we avoid the worst of the absurdities whilst retaining a sense of humour. Also we allow a rhinoceros to run for our general elections.
 
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othertravel

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Not to delve into this too deeply, but it's actually a constitutional monarchy. The only democratic thing in Canada is voting for members of parliament - no election of the head-of-state (the Queen/governor-general), and the PM doesn't even direct the army, much less make all the laws. The senate is chosen from a small number of people (hence oligarchy) and appointed, not voted into position.

We balance democratic, oligarchic, and monarchic elements. That's how we avoid the worst of the absurdities whilst retaining a sense of humour. Also we allow a rhinoceros to run for our general elections.
I will not delve too deeply either, but a parliamentary democracy can also be a constitutional monarchy. In Canada's case, the government has the form and function of both elements.

In contrast, a country like Jordan is also a constitutional monarchy, but only has the form of a parliamentary democracy (i.e. it's not a true representative democracy - closer to a classical monarchical system of government).

Regarding the senate, I'm not sure which definition of oligarchy you're using. But it doesn't seem to be consistent with the Aristotelian definition.

Either way, this is all relevant to this thread.
 

JFWR

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I will not delve too deeply either, but a parliamentary democracy can also be a constitutional monarchy. In Canada's case, the government has the form and function of both elements.

In contrast, a country like Jordan is also a constitutional monarchy, but only has the form of a parliamentary democracy (i.e. it's not a true representative democracy - closer to a classical monarchical system of government).

Regarding the senate, I'm not sure which definition of oligarchy you're using. But it doesn't seem to be consistent with the Aristotelian definition.

Either way, this is all relevant to this thread.
The term "aristocracy" would probably be better, or "timocracy". The Canadian citizens chosen as senators are respectable, wealthy people who are held to have a certain degree of wisdom and sagacity. This matches Aristotle's vision of aristocracy or Plato's conception of timocracy.
 

Nobilis Animus

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I will not delve too deeply either, but a parliamentary democracy can also be a constitutional monarchy. In Canada's case, the government has the form and function of both elements.

In contrast, a country like Jordan is also a constitutional monarchy, but only has the form of a parliamentary democracy (i.e. it's not a true representative democracy - closer to a classical monarchical system of government).

Regarding the senate, I'm not sure which definition of oligarchy you're using. But it doesn't seem to be consistent with the Aristotelian definition.

Either way, this is all relevant to this thread.
Yes, as @JFWR said, it's more of an aristocracy with the senate. I was loosely using oligarchy to refer to a 'rule by few,' whether chosen on the basis of nobility, wealth, intellect, etc. At the same time, we do have something of an aristocratic class in Canada - pretty much the same as the UK.

I suppose I just see a real democracy as having more of a voice for citizens as a whole; arguably there are no real democracies around today, since Athenian democracy was much more limited in terms of who counted as a citizen, and even then there was concern over mob-style populism in the city-states. Think of what Plato would say about modern democracies, where anyone with a pulse can vote.

The trouble is that nowadays 'democracy' has no meaning, politically. It's a buzzword people throw around to mean 'good,' and it's opposite is something like 'fascism,' which is 'bad.' Very few people know what these things even are. Even fewer know what a state is, or why some monarchies offer more freedoms than some democracies, etc.
 

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