what is a sack suit

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Jay Gatsby, Jun 10, 2010.

  1. Jay Gatsby

    Jay Gatsby Senior member

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    Is it all about the amount taken in at the waist? Are 'darted' and 'sack' as features opposite, or unrelated?
     
  2. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

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    What the Victorians knew as the sack coat first appeared in France at the end of the 1840's and quickly spread to England and America, becoming very popular in the East by the mid-1850's. Intended for extremely informal occasions, sack coats soon became working and business wear for skilled workers and clerks. By the end of the 1850's the U.S. Army had adopted a military version of the sack coat as fatigue wear. By the 1870's civilian sacks were being worn as general purpose outdoors and working jackets by many people out west.

    Despite what you may have read, they are not called "sack coats" because they are oversized, loose, or otherwise fit like a sack. Sack, sac, sacque, etc. all refer to the way the back of the jacket is cut; i.e. "sack cut". This simply means the back is formed of two pieces only, cut relatively straight down, instead of being made up of four curved pieces with hidden pockets in the tails as on more formal and traditional coats such as tail coats, morning coats, and frocks. Some tailoring manuals of the 1850's and 1860's refer to the sack coat by other names, but it's the same garment. Length of skirt and sleeve, number and style of pockets, collar, lapels, and the cut of the front skirt were the elements of changing style in the sack coat from 1850 to 1900. At all times in the period, sack coats were made in "close cut", "full cut", "single breasted", and "double breasted" versions

    In 1900, Brooks Brothers introduced its "No. 1 Sack Suit." This version of the sack became the inconic model of the American upper class RTW version of the English lounge suit, and the basis for the collegiate style variants of other multi-store makers like Chipp and Press, as well as all the individual boutique shops, often adjacent to elite colleges and prep schools, that serviced the social groups wearing this look. In the late 1950's and early 1960's, this look became entwined with American confidence and optimism, and a shared sense of destiny among social classes that had been more stucturally divided in the past: many wore it.

    Today, it is the preserve of the dwindled social class that wore it originally and of mid-20th century clothing re-enactors.

    How's that?


    - B
     
  3. holymadness

    holymadness Senior member

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  4. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

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    I hope that you will reach for new levels of grumpiness at your 2000th post.

    - B
     
  5. aj_del

    aj_del Senior member

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    ^^ I dont think it is possible for holymadness to reach even greater heights. He is already at the Everest
     
  6. BBC

    BBC Senior member

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    As a person who wears "sack" suits/sport coats all the time, I simply chose the style because I don't like darts on the front of my jackets - it's nothing more meaningful than that.

    Sack suit - Southwick
    [​IMG]

    Sack suit - BB
    [​IMG]

    Sack sport coat - Norman Hilton
    [​IMG]
     
  7. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

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    ^^ I dont think it is possible for holymadness to reach even greater heights. He is already at the Everest

    I thought that apropos was already there? I hope that there are two cots and a sufficiently warm tent.


    - B
     
  8. apropos

    apropos Senior member

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    I thought that apropos was already there? I hope that there are two cots and a sufficiently warm tent.


    - B

    Misery loves company.
     
  9. bigasahouse

    bigasahouse Senior member

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    What the Victorians knew as the sack coat first appeared in France at the end of the 1840's and quickly spread to England and America, becoming very popular in the East by the mid-1850's. Intended for extremely informal occasions, sack coats soon became working and business wear for skilled workers and clerks. By the end of the 1850's the U.S. Army had adopted a military version of the sack coat as fatigue wear. By the 1870's civilian sacks were being worn as general purpose outdoors and working jackets by many people out west.

    Despite what you may have read, they are not called "sack coats" because they are oversized, loose, or otherwise fit like a sack. Sack, sac, sacque, etc. all refer to the way the back of the jacket is cut; i.e. "sack cut". This simply means the back is formed of two pieces only, cut relatively straight down, instead of being made up of four curved pieces with hidden pockets in the tails as on more formal and traditional coats such as tail coats, morning coats, and frocks. Some tailoring manuals of the 1850's and 1860's refer to the sack coat by other names, but it's the same garment. Length of skirt and sleeve, number and style of pockets, collar, lapels, and the cut of the front skirt were the elements of changing style in the sack coat from 1850 to 1900. At all times in the period, sack coats were made in "close cut", "full cut", "single breasted", and "double breasted" versions

    In 1900, Brooks Brothers introduced its "No. 1 Sack Suit." This version of the sack became the inconic model of the American upper class RTW version of the English lounge suit, and the basis for the collegiate style variants of other multi-store makers like Chipp and Press, as well as all the individual boutique shops, often adjacent to elite colleges and prep schools, that serviced the social groups wearing this look. In the late 1950's and early 1960's, this look became entwined with American confidence and optimism, and a shared sense of destiny among social classes that had been more stucturally divided in the past: many wore it.

    Today, it is the preserve of the dwindled social class that wore it originally and of mid-20th century clothing re-enactors.

    How's that?


    - B


    Very informative- thank you. So does that mean that most RTW suits are sack suits?
     
  10. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

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    Very informative- thank you. So does that mean that most RTW suits are sack suits?

    If you mean that most modern jackets are derived from the sack/lounge cut as distinguished from morning, tail and frock coats, yes.

    If you mean are most modern jackets are modeled are after the BB #1, without front cuts or darts, then no. They are now rare.


    - B
     
  11. lasbar

    lasbar Senior member

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    I hope that you will reach for new levels of grumpiness at your 2000th post.

    - B


    I like his grumpiness...
     
  12. BBC

    BBC Senior member

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    If you mean are most modern jackets are modeled are after the BB #1, without front cuts or darts, then no. They are now rare.
    - B


    Of course, Vox is correct that contemporary RTW sack suits are fairly rare, but there are a number of shops that cater to those who like sack suits. A small sample of RTW sack suits can be seen at O'Connells: http://shop.oconnellsclothing.com/suits.php
     
  13. holymadness

    holymadness Senior member

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    I hope that you will reach for new levels of grumpiness at your 2000th post.

    - B


    I promise to Leap for the Lord!
     
  14. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

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    I like his grumpiness...

    I am hopeful that with enough study and hard work, he will be graduated from grumpiness to harrumphing.

    Harrumphing is where it's at on StyleForvm today. A lot of the Senior Members now do it.


    - B
     
  15. voxsartoria

    voxsartoria Goon member

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    Of course, Vox is correct that contemporary RTW sack suits are fairly rare, but there are a number of shops that cater to those who like sack suits. A small sample of RTW sack suits can be seen at O'Connells: http://shop.oconnellsclothing.com/suits.php

    I'll add to this the wide range of bargain priced items at Cable Car.


    - B
     

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