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What fabrics are worth considering for my first ever bespoke suit?

lullemans72

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I haven't updated this thread on the last two fittings, so here goes.
At this point, I'm less looking for advice and more just trying to document this journey for myself or anyone who took interest in this thread from the beginning.
EDIT: due to an apparent glitch in the system, I'm unable to delete or reposition photos. The photos you see of the waistcoat at the bottom belong to the fitting of January 12.

So I went back on January 12 for a new fitting since the last alterations. Only the jacket had been altered, but I had pictures taken of everything.

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Following that fitting, I told them it still sucked (albeit in a nice way), and they then decided that since sending it back to their tailors in Vietnam wouldn't help much, they contacted a local Japanese tailor who is specialized in making alterations. That was today, and the suit jacket looks as follows.

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Vinsep

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I only saw this post today... But from your first post I could tell something is wrong.

Although I haven't done any bespoke suit yet but I would not trust any bespoke tailors that would offer poly/wool blend fabric.

I think they definitely look better now.
 

Hung-Wei Long

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I'm planning on ordering my very first bespoke suit in a few months. I'm so excited to finally get a feel for what it's like to own a suit that's entirely tailored to my proportions, but I'm still not sure about what fabrics I should go for. I want to make my first suit one that I can wear for the regular work week, so color and design wise it's going to be a simple, solid navy suit, and it will be worn mostly in the fall/winter/spring seasons.

Last time I visited the tailor a few months back, they showed me various available fabrics coming from local producers in Japan, as well as Italy and the UK. Some of the fabrics were the usual 100% wool (120s),and 80/20, 50/50 wool/polyester blend. Now, since this will be my first real tailor made suit, I want to go for something a little more premium, something that's going to last and look good. So I thought a wool/polyester blend just wouldn't make the cut for that. I also prefer to avoid 100% wool suits as I already own a suit like that, and it creases like crazy. I usually only hang the suit and pants on a hanger and only rarely use a steamer to try and get some of the creases out near the seat/crotch area of the pants. For that reason, the other suits I own are of a wool/polyester blend only.

Anyway, I've been considering some of the other fabrics I noticed they had, like an 80/20 wool/mohair blend. I'd in fact never heard about mohair up until that point, but from what I gather, it seems to be a pretty luxurious fabric and works very well when blended with wool. I was thinking of going for that, but am wondering if there are any other blends I might want to consider, such as wool/cashmere, or wool/cotton?
 

Hung-Wei Long

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As always for suits, its the use case and fit that are always the most important for construction materials. In general, these are the rules:

1. you can never go wrong with 110s or 120's wool for any occasion. Its finely combed and usually will have a very slight sheen.

2. If you're a heavy business traveler, a wool blend with just a hint of polyester (I mean 5% or under) is actually a great idea because it holds the shape without suitcase wrinkling and handles like a pure wool suit. That said, I'd recommend you buy a "travel suit" off the rack. Its far cheaper and can take the beating for years. Also, most off the racks are excellent material quality/fit these days. Given the cost, bespoke tailored suits are usually for far more formal work wear, particularly in suit-required professions.

3. Any mohair or alpaca blend is fine for a blazer but not recommended for a full 2-3 piece suit. Be careful if you have skin allergies because its a coarser fiber and can itch.

4. Avoid cashmere blends if you can. Sure it sounds cool, but maintenance and dry cleaning is a seriously expensive pain

4. If you're using the suit for more serious business wear, avoid any cotton or linen blending. That's for more casual afternoon or evening wear where a little rumpled look is more stylish and acceptable.
 

Newcomer

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The suit looks significantly better. It is by no means perfect - however, it fits quite nicely at this point.

I am impressed by your persistence - it salvaged a suit that I had written off as unsalvageable.
 

lullemans72

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It's been a while since I was on the forum here, and almost forgot about this thread I'd made.
Anyway, I'm here with another update about the situation.

The suit looks significantly better. It is by no means perfect - however, it fits quite nicely at this point.

I am impressed by your persistence - it salvaged a suit that I had written off as unsalvageable.

Well, thanks. While it looks better than before, it doesn't satisfy my expectations.
I have said this to the shop numerous times, but they kept telling me "we think we did a good job and delivered a good suit".

They maintained that the creasing present in the suit is due to the natural drape of the fabric, but I disagreed with them, especially with the creasing in the shoulder area, not to mention the gaping collar gap that is still present. Also, while the shoulders may look slightly better than before, this process of stiffening them has caused the suit to feel very stiff as well when I move my arms around. The shop said this stiffness might lessen as I wear it, but at this point I don't trust anything they say. All they offered me was a 30% discount as a "late fee", but I refused it. I haven't been in contact with them for several months now, but I'm in the process of making a lawsuit against them. It's not the best use of my time or money, but I cannot let them get away with claiming that this looks like a proper bespoke suit. Ultimately, it was my mistake for ordering anything from them.
 
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Pyrrhomaniac

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Absolutely fascinating journey and a very informative thread. Thanks for sharing!
 

lullemans72

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I thought I'd share a little update about my past bespoke suit adventure...

Since my last post from last year, I became quite busy both at work and privately that I didn't have the time or mental energy to dedicate myself to this whole suit project. However, since a couple of months, things have settled down a little, and I have been able to get some second opinions from other tailors about the quality of construction of this very suit in an attempt to argue against the company that made it.

For a while, I also completely gave up on pursuing anything related to suits as I didn't trust anyone in the business. But that too, changed recently. I ordered a couple of suits from a big brand specializing in MTM. Given their very clear 30-day guaranteed refund policy, I decided I had nothing to loose. I now understand much better what MTM can and can't offer, and am fully content with that.

And the biggest news: I also managed to muster the courage to order a proper bespoke suit. This time, I didn't order it from a small start-up run by a bunch of amateurs in an attempt to save money like I did before. No, this time I ordered it from a proper tailor who has been in the business from several generations. At about 400.000 yen or 4000$, this was NOT cheap, but I knew this was the price one pays for a proper bespoke suit.

As far as fabric goes, I went with a 100% wool, dark blue super 120s from an English brand called Harrisons.

The initial measurements have already been taken, and I went in another time earlier this week to choose buttons and discuss any other details I wanted. The first basted fitting will be completed in the next 1-2 weeks.

One thing I noticed which I found a little anti-climactic to be honest, was that the new tailor, aside from asking me about pleats, trouser width and double or single vents, didn't ask or offer much in terms of customization. He did ask me if there were any specific things I wanted them to do, but being that this is my first time with a real tailor, I laughed and said they are welcome to make suggestions.

In hindsight, I guess it's maybe not up to the tailor to come up with suggestions, but up to the customer to communicate exactly how he wants the suit customized. I will be discussing more details with the new tailor once I go in for the basted fitting in a few weeks.

I'd be happy to hear about the experience from other people on their full bespoke suit experience.
 
Last edited:

ValidusLA

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I thought I'd share a little update about my past bespoke suit adventure...

Since my last post from last year, I became quite busy both at work and privately that I didn't have the time or mental energy to dedicate myself to this whole suit project. However, since a couple of months, things have settled down a little, and I have been able to get some second opinions from other tailors about the quality of construction of this very suit in an attempt to argue against the company that made it.

For a while, I also completely gave up on pursuing anything related to suits as I didn't trust anyone in the business. But that too, changed recently. I ordered a couple of suits from a big brand specializing in MTM. Given their very clear 30-day guaranteed refund policy, I decided I had nothing to loose. I now understand much better what MTM can and can't offer, and am fully content with that.

And the biggest news: I also managed to muster the courage to order a proper bespoke suit. This time, I didn't order it from a small start-up run by a bunch of amateurs in an attempt to save money like I did before. No, this time I ordered it from a proper tailor who has been in the business from several generations. At about 400.000 yen or 4000$, this was NOT cheap, but I knew this was the price one pays for a proper bespoke suit.

As far as fabric goes, I went with a 100% wool, dark blue super 120s from an English brand called Harrisons.

The initial measurements have already been taken, and I went in another time earlier this week to choose buttons and discuss any other details I wanted. The first basted fitting will be completed in the next 1-2 weeks.

One thing I noticed which I found a little anti-climactic to be honest, was that the new tailor, aside from asking me about pleats, trouser width and double or single vents, didn't ask or offer much in terms of customization. He did ask me if there were any specific things I wanted them to do, but being that this is my first time with a real tailor, I laughed and said they are welcome to make suggestions.

In hindsight, I guess it's maybe not up to the tailor to come up with suggestions, but up to the customer to communicate exactly how he wants the suit customized. I will be discussing more details with the new tailor once I go in for the basted fitting in a few weeks.

I'd be happy to hear about the experience from other people on their full bespoke suit experience.

So, definitely you can have different experiences with different tailors.

Firstly - there is bespoke for less than $4000. There is bespoke for more than $4000. Its not a bad price for a bespoke experience, and Harrisons is good cloth, but you don't have to pay that much, necessarily.

In terms of customization - I think it definitely helps to have a little bit more in mind when you go in. Tailors can do a lot, but especially for a first suit they wont push you towards too much flash certainly.

If this is your first time working with a tailor and you are getting a navy suit done (a wise choice), they probably assume your stable is not too deep and wouldn't (wisely) push you towards something crazy.

That being said, they can do whatever you want if they are worth their sale.

I have shawl collars, peak lapels, and notch lapels in varying widths from 3.25" to 3.75" (and boy is a 3.75" peak aggressive).

Ticket pockets, hacking pockets, differing button closures.

Belt loops vs adjusters vs braces buttons.

For some blazers and sport coats I have done a contrast button hole (only on the left arm and only on the nearest button hole to the hand). I also....guiltily did a single bright red contrast button hole on a midnight blue tuxedo sleeve because I am just that gauche.

You can customize interior pockets. Do you want a pen pocket? Right or left?

Do you want a strap on the back of your lapel to hold a boutonniere?

There are basically endless choices you could make on your suit, and a tailor charging $4,000 should be able to do them. But most I've met don't push that stuff.

Congrats on the upcoming suit!
 

Stuart Midgley

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And the biggest news: I also managed to muster the courage to order a proper bespoke suit.

Great!

One thing I noticed which I found a little anti-climactic to be honest, was that the new tailor, aside from asking me about pleats, trouser width and double or single vents, didn't ask or offer much in terms of customization. He did ask me if there were any specific things I wanted them to do, but being that this is my first time with a real tailor, I laughed and said they are welcome to make suggestions.

In hindsight, I guess it's maybe not up to the tailor to come up with suggestions, but up to the customer to communicate exactly how he wants the suit customized. I will be discussing more details with the new tailor once I go in for the basted fitting in a few weeks.

FWIW, I've found two things make the most noticeable differences to the final outcome of a bespoke suit.

The first is the design of the lapels: how low or high the jacket buttons are placed, how wide the lapels are, how low or high the gorge (the notch in the lapel) is.

Low gorges with wider lapels were the height of 80's fashion but are also quite classic British style:

apgray-main.jpg

Remington-Steele-1986-Suit-2.jpg

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The current fashion is for skinny suits with narrow lapels and very high gorges:

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And in bespoke you can mix and match, high gorge with wider lapel as just one example (see here for the article the next two images came from):

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Button stance is explained quite well here. Low button stance is typically more formal. Tuxedo jackets are very low, traditionally with only one button to permit a very low stance:

brooks-brothers-Black-One-button-Shawl-Collar-Tuxedo-Jacket.jpeg

Most 2-button 'ordinary' suits are somewhere in the middle, and hacking jackets (traditional UK country style) are buttoned high:

Hacking-Jacket-1030x1030.jpg


The second thing is to do with how much shirt shows at the extremities: the sleeve length and collar height around the back of the neck. Some people show no cuff, others a full inch. Some have a higher collar at the back, some a lower one. Somewhere in the middle is 'classic' for both. The internet is full of sites declaring the 'proper' amount but really, it's a personal choice.

Suit Sleeve.jpg


Collar-Fit-Ashley-Weston.png

I've found that understanding and making active choices in these two areas gives the biggest payoff for feeling like you got what you wanted from your bespoke dollars. It's where you can really make a bespoke suit look good and distinct from a standard off-the-rack.

There is one proviso - some choices will flatter your natural shape and some won't. That's where I'd talk to your tailor about their view. Once they know you understand the possibilities and the general look you're trying to achieve (classic British, or Italian, or contemporary skinny) I've found they are much more willing to discuss specific details.

To be fair, it's hard for them to give advice when told only 'I want to look good', but I find if walk in and say 'I like a classic British style with lower gorge, but not as super-low as the 1980's high fashion, and a medium width lapel with a lowish-but-not-extreme button stance, and a 1/3 inch of cuff showing, what do you think for my body shape?' I get more thoughtful answer.
 

lullemans72

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Thanks for the replies guys, and sorry for the late reply!! I didn't forget about this:cry:

So, definitely you can have different experiences with different tailors.

Absolutely. Different tailors I visited had different shop designs, different atmospheres etc.
The one I ended up picking strangely enough doesn't use email to contact his customers...only phone or fax. Really old school.

Firstly - there is bespoke for less than $4000. There is bespoke for more than $4000. Its not a bad price for a bespoke experience, and Harrisons is good cloth, but you don't have to pay that much, necessarily.

From exploring different tailors around Tokyo, I found that those who offer bespoke for less than 4000 USD (more around 2000-3000 USD range) aren't actually making "real" bespoke. That is to say, it's partly hand made and partly machine made, in a factory outside the shop which is why they can drive down the cost.

In terms of customization - I think it definitely helps to have a little bit more in mind when you go in. Tailors can do a lot, but especially for a first suit they wont push you towards too much flash certainly.

If this is your first time working with a tailor and you are getting a navy suit done (a wise choice), they probably assume your stable is not too deep and wouldn't (wisely) push you towards something crazy.

Yeah I'm guessing that's what he was thinking too.

I have shawl collars, peak lapels, and notch lapels in varying widths from 3.25" to 3.75" (and boy is a 3.75" peak aggressive).

Ticket pockets, hacking pockets, differing button closures.

Belt loops vs adjusters vs braces buttons.

For some blazers and sport coats I have done a contrast button hole (only on the left arm and only on the nearest button hole to the hand). I also....guiltily did a single bright red contrast button hole on a midnight blue tuxedo sleeve because I am just that gauche.

You can customize interior pockets. Do you want a pen pocket? Right or left?

Do you want a strap on the back of your lapel to hold a boutonniere?

Haha, definitely no peak lapels for me right now. I'm of relatively slim build, so I want something that doesn't outright swallow me. The tailor also asked me if I wanted a contrasting button hole, pen pockets and ticket pockets, but I said I wanted to keep it all simple.
 

lullemans72

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Hey man, thanks a lot for the very detailed reply, and once again please accept my apologies for not replying sooner.

I've found that understanding and making active choices in these two areas gives the biggest payoff for feeling like you got what you wanted from your bespoke dollars. It's where you can really make a bespoke suit look good and distinct from a standard off-the-rack.

There is one proviso - some choices will flatter your natural shape and some won't. That's where I'd talk to your tailor about their view. Once they know you understand the possibilities and the general look you're trying to achieve (classic British, or Italian, or contemporary skinny) I've found they are much more willing to discuss specific details.

To be fair, it's hard for them to give advice when told only 'I want to look good', but I find if walk in and say 'I like a classic British style with lower gorge, but not as super-low as the 1980's high fashion, and a medium width lapel with a lowish-but-not-extreme button stance, and a 1/3 inch of cuff showing, what do you think for my body shape?' I get more thoughtful answer.

You make a good point. I think when I finally decided to go full bespoke, I thought it was just a matter of walking into the shop and letting the tailor work his magic since he should be able to size me up immediately.

As far as lapels are concerned, I've seen some pretty high lapels on some of Hugo's jackets from Sartorial Talks. I personally don't desire that much flashiness and prefer to stick to more classic look, or one that's going to compliment me. One of the things I probably pay the most attention to is the fit of the shoulders. I'm expecting a good tailor to be able to craft a suit in such way that the shoulders especially will be pretty much wrinkle free.

In the meantime, I have been doing some more thinking in terms of what I'd like the tailor to do, such as slanting the front pocket of the jacket a little, or asking him to make curved lapels instead of straight ones.

I'll be going in for the first basted fitting this week, so I'm pretty excited to discuss these ideas with him.
 

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