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What ebay feedback does this seller deserve?

Redwoood

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I'm trying to figure out what feedback to give to this seller I dealt with, and since I can't decide what underpants to wear without SF's help, I'm asking you for input.

So the guy advertises the item as 'guaranteed new' without tags.
I buy it, the package arrives, and whaddyaknow, there are signs of serious use, and it stinks of cigarette smoke.

I inform the seller, who should know better because he sells clothes all the time, and yaddayaddayadda (somewhat difficult communication), I send the item back and get a full refund including the return shipping cost.

I should be happy, right? Mistakes happen, right?
Except that he relisted the item as 'guaranteed new' again. Now, while my transaction found a somewhat satisfactory/neutral conclusion, I feel like I should warn others of this scam artist.
I already informed ebay, but they are not gonna do anything.

So what kind of feedback should I leave?
 

ter1413

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Defcon 2-Prick
 

kjamesuvic

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Pretty obvious that people need to know of his mischievousness. Give 'em hell
 

Modern Day Adonis

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Voted negative, you informed him of its obvious used condition and he relisted it as "guaranteed new." If he had been unaware of its condition prior to your transaction, he certainly was made aware after. However, his choosing to be deceitful in his relisting makes me believe that he was being deceitful in your transaction as well.

His feedback should reflect his dishonesty; I don't deal with people whom I do not trust. And I believe potential customers would value your exposure of his dishonesty.
 

Redwoood

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Originally Posted by Modern Day Adonis
Voted negative, you informed him of its obvious used condition and he relisted it as "guaranteed new." If he had been unaware of its condition prior to your transaction, he certainly was made aware after. However, his choosing to be deceitful in his relisting makes me believe that he was being deceitful in your transaction as well. His feedback should reflect his dishonesty; I don't deal with people whom I do not trust. And I believe potential customers would value your exposure of his dishonesty.
That's pretty much my analysis of the issue as well. I forgot to mention he already gave me positive feedback. One reason why I'm hesitating to leave negative feedback is that in future dealings with other ebay sellers, they might read this negative feedback and decide to hold back on leaving me feedback or giving me easy refunds. Would be nice to get some input from the seller contingent here. Do you read the feedback people left (as opposed to feedback received)? Does it influence your attitude/behaviour towards a (potential) buyer?
 

LatinStyleLover

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I hate to be the voice of dissent, but I disagree. YOU were made whole. He even refunded return shipping, which neither Ebay or Paypal require. Feedback should reflect YOUR transaction, not someone else's future transaction. For all you know he may have a duplicate of the item and it is the duplicate he is now selling. Regardless, he made you whole and has earned positive feedback, from YOU.

Now, it might not hurt to explain in your positive feedback comments that the item was advertised as new, but wasn't, but seller made you whole. But to hit him with a negative when you have not been personally harmed at this point, when he went beyond what is required, no way should he get a negative or neutral.

How many times have I read the rants on here from people who have bought an item that was not as described and were pissed off because they had to pay return shipping? I have been in that boat and let the seller know that I expected return shipping to be paid if he was expecting a favorable rating from me. That has always worked and then, having been made whole, I leave positive feedback.

Obviously, I am in the minority here so I am guessing you are going to nail this guy. I think it is really too bad, myself.
 

Crane's

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Originally Posted by Redwoood
Would be nice to get some input from the seller contingent here. Do you read the feedback people left (as opposed to feedback received)? Does it influence your attitude/behaviour towards a (potential) buyer?
Bet on it. If I don't like how you do things you won't get what I'm selling. Your answer to what you should do is quoted below. FB is about your experience with a seller, nothing more.
Originally Posted by LatinStyleLover
I hate to be the voice of dissent, but I disagree. YOU were made whole. He even refunded return shipping, which neither Ebay or Paypal require. Feedback should reflect YOUR transaction, not someone else's future transaction. For all you know he may have a duplicate of the item and it is the duplicate he is now selling. Regardless, he made you whole and has earned positive feedback, from YOU. Now, it might not hurt to explain in your positive feedback comments that the item was advertised as new, but wasn't, but seller made you whole. But to hit him with a negative when you have not been personally harmed at this point, when he went beyond what is required, no way should he get a negative or neutral. How many times have I read the rants on here from people who have bought an item that was not as described and were pissed off because they had to pay return shipping? I have been in that boat and let the seller know that I expected return shipping to be paid if he was expecting a favorable rating from me. That has always worked and then, having been made whole, I leave positive feedback. Obviously, I am in the minority here so I am guessing you are going to nail this guy. I think it is really too bad, myself.
 

Redwoood

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By no means have I decided what to do.
I acknowledge that there is a certain dilemma, which is why I am asking my SF brethren for advice.
My decision will be based in part on what input I get, so anything useful is welcome

Some thoughts below.

Originally Posted by LatinStyleLover
I hate to be the voice of dissent, but I disagree. YOU were made whole. He even refunded return shipping, which neither Ebay or Paypal require.

I agree that ebay or pp do not require this, but common decency does. Ebay doesn't require me to leave
positive feedback if I get a refund, either. My feedback will be based on his behaviour and its interpretation through my moral compass. While doing more than the bare minimum is nice, I was not made whole, I will never get the time back dealing with this, the 8 emails or so I had to write to get my refund, the anxiety over whether he was going to pull a fast one on me.

Feedback should reflect YOUR transaction, not someone else's future transaction.
The ultimate purpose of feedback is for future buyers to get a realistic picture of a seller's trustworthiness.

For all you know he may have a duplicate of the item and it is the duplicate he is now selling. Regardless, he made you whole and has earned positive feedback, from YOU.
The same item, in the same size and colour, using the same pictures and the same description?
Yes, there is a theoretical chance it is a different item, but I'm a realist. If the risk of my falsely accusing him were the only thing weighing on my conscience, I would sleep like a baby.

Now, it might not hurt to explain in your positive feedback comments that the item was advertised as new, but wasn't, but seller made you whole. But to hit him with a negative when you have not been personally harmed at this point, when he went beyond what is required, no way should he get a negative or neutral.
I will definitely explain the entire situation in the comment. Including the bit with the refund.
The question is just about the classification of feedback.
As stated above, I was not made whole. But even if I had been, how is this a positive experience?
Trade occurs when one party assigns greater value to a good than another. When I buy something for $100, then the item is worth more to me than $100 in my pocket (and to the seller $100 is worth more than the item). It's a net-win (positive) situation for me.
If I reverse the transaction ('made whole'), it's at most net-neutral, but likely net-negative because while I was dealing with this mess, I could have more profitably flipped burgers or watched Boardwalk Empire, or something.
So, I don't see how this is a positive situation, just because it could have been worse?
To over-dramatize things a little, if somebody shoots at you and misses, do you give them a pass? You're still (literally) whole.

How many times have I read the rants on here from people who have bought an item that was not as described and were pissed off because they had to pay return shipping? I have been in that boat and let the seller know that I expected return shipping to be paid if he was expecting a favorable rating from me. That has always worked and then, having been made whole, I leave positive feedback.
So how exactly does this work, you tell the seller before you bid?

Obviously, I am in the minority here so I am guessing you are going to nail this guy. I think it is really too bad, myself.
Again, I haven't decided.

Originally Posted by SpooPoker
Fill it with some ASCII and asterisks and they will notice.

Nobody even looks at the positive feedback page. Which is the crux of the problem.

I am fed up with people picking up a $5 item at the thrift store, than selling it on ebay for $100 as NWOT. It's a numbers game for them. They figure even if every second buyer figures out the item is used, they'll be out 2xshipping, but they still make 800% profit on this. And the good feedback from
the informed buyers dilutes the feedback rating and feeds the racket, so they can sell it to the suckers who don't know better.
This needs to stop. I don't want to have to wade through this crap all the time. ebay crucially relies on honest sellers as there is no way to inspect the item in person. Sellers who are only honest when they
are being caught, are not honest at all in my book. They are just trying to bribe their way out of trouble.
The only way I can make this racket stop is by using the only weapon in my arsenal: feedback.
Maybe if enough people follow my example, the scammers will realize that the numbers game doesn't pay off, and this mess will stop.

Discuss.
 

LatinStyleLover

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I have three responses to your most recent post:

1. I am so glad I am not a Seller.

2. I do not think that people who think the way you do should be buying on Ebay, period. You seem to be expecting 5 Star, First Class Neiman Marcus service/pricing at K-Mart prices. That is not Ebay or at least not what I expect Ebay to be.

3. Just WOW!

One more comment, but not a comment on your most recent post because I do not think you really want input or discussion, rather, you want to justify what you are already determined to do, out of spite would be my guess. Most Sellers I know now look exclusively at a buyers "feedback left for" record since their feedback for items purchased is meaningless seeing as they cannot receive a negative or neutral anymore. Buyers who leave excessive negative feedbacks, neutral feedbacks, or seem to have a flare for leaving positive feedback with entirely negative comments are being blocked from bidding on auctions. As Crane's stated: "If I don't like how you do things you won't get what I'm selling." The sellers I buy from would do just about anything, including taking less money, than to deal with someone like you.
 

ArteEtLabore14

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Originally Posted by LatinStyleLover
I have three responses to your most recent post:

1. I am so glad I am not a Seller.

2. I do not think that people who think the way you do should be buying on Ebay, period. You seem to be expecting 5 Star, First Class Neiman Marcus service/pricing at K-Mart prices. That is not Ebay or at least not what I expect Ebay to be.

3. Just WOW!

One more comment, but not a comment on your most recent post because I do not think you really want input or discussion, rather, you want to justify what you are already determined to do, out of spite would be my guess. Most Sellers I know now look exclusively at a buyers "feedback left for" record since their feedback for items purchased is meaningless seeing as they cannot receive a negative or neutral anymore. Buyers who leave excessive negative feedbacks, neutral feedbacks, or seem to have a flare for leaving positive feedback with entirely negative comments are being blocked from bidding on auctions. As Crane's stated: "If I don't like how you do things you won't get what I'm selling." The sellers I buy from would do just about anything, including taking less money, than to deal with someone like you.


You're kind of a dick. OP is asking for advice and you're all over him saying he shouldn't be buying on eBay. Come again?

OP: FWIW if it was me I'd probably leave neutral and explain the situation. Even though you eventually got a refund the fact that it requires it automatically makes the transaction not a positive. I mostly don't care about other eBayers as I'm also kind of a dick, but if it's weighing heavily on your mind you could PM the seller and let him know you saw the item re-listed inaccurately and will be forced to leave negative feedback if he does not change.
 

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