Yeah…idiots. Jon. Well, I love the 8-series. But let's call a spade a spade here: people who are enthusiasts for a design such as the 8 series that is really iconic of the 90's BMW design are probably not going to be very quick to accept the Bangle designs. Don't get me wrong, I am not crazy about all of Bangle's designs. However, hardcore Beemer/BWWCCA people in the category that you are describing usually are not very open minded to innovative design. They cling to the tride and true and want slight upgrades and variations. A lot of features in his car are really ahead of their time and therefore have met with mixed reviews (like the dial thingy in the 745). Bangle is hated because his designs are radical and different. People who like the old designs will have to buy a used car *gasp* and take care of it.