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What do you consider to be good food?

Discussion in 'Health & Body' started by marc37, Jun 23, 2004.

  1. RJman

    RJman Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    (RJMan @ June 23 2005,17:31) Shoomaster b8man wrote: Quote T4phage needs to drink a dailey wheatgrass juice to add some nutrition to his severley lacking diet. He has been acting alittle funny today, these are the first signs. Poor nutrition = disease.
    What's your excuse then?
    "Common symptoms include diarrhea, itch, pain, fatigue, soreness of the shoulder,  fever, etc. These symptoms appear more frequently in patients suffering long term or  more serious illnesses, and symptoms may repeat several times. Each episode may last  3-7 days, but sometimes it may last one month, or even worse over 6 months" From: Skeptic Dictionary... Urine Therapy.[/quote] T4: do the symptoms include _verbal_ diarrhea?
     
  2. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    Marc,

    I assume that you meant HCl, in aqueous form, not HCL. That is hydrochloric acid. If you don't know what that is, I assume that you don't really understand what alkalinity is either.
     
  3. RJman

    RJman Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    Marc:

    I can recommend HCl therapy to you.  Best taken as an enema.
     
  4. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Admin Moderator

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    (LA Guy @ June 24 2005,10:00) Marc, I Â assume that you meant HCl, in aqueous form, not HCL. Â If you don't know what that is, I assume that you don't really understand what alkalinity is either.
    Marc: I can recommend HCl therapy to you. Â Best taken as an enema.
    Ouch. Now that is just mean [​IMG]
     
  5. Matt

    Matt Senior member

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    Marc

    I entered this thread late, and certainly with an open mind to your (non-excrement involved) theories about nutrition, but you have really failed to convince me.

    You are yet to supply a single shred of numerical, verifiable evidence that support your theories, but have managed to successfully spend 20 pages promising to do so "later". We are on page 44 dude...its getting late.

    You have also in turn criticised science as being not as advanced as the progressive thinkers you admire, and then cited "science has proven" several posts later as some endorsement. And then of course refused to name which scientist, where, and when. Other times, you do name them, they get discredited and you dont respond to the discrediting (indeed one guy you cite as an expert worth listening to DIED from heeding his own advice...jesus.....)

    As an aside, the pics posted of said progressive thinkers dont exactly scream "look how healthy I am" to me...they both look kind of undernourished. that sallow-looking guy clearly needs some calories, someone pass the Poptarts

    T4 has pretty successfully discredited everyone who you have bothered to name, and every theory you have bothered to present, and you have never quite been able to refute him other than saying he is full of shit.

    FWIW Im far from taking his side just for the hell of it, indeed he and I have been involved in a very public spat and had very little to do with each other since - so if I was taking sides for sides sake, Id be siding with the fellow Melburnian on general-Vic-pride principle.

    What I guess I would like to see from you is something as quantifiable as he has presented.

    Something to the effect of "your body needs X milligrams of A,B,C according to and according to the study by this <product> contains X mg, while these more commonly known products only contain Y mg"...at least then we could have a meaningful discussion on a potentially interesting topic.

    At the very least you could silence your detractors somewhat.

    Otherwise, I'll treat this as something of a system of beliefs for you, and respect your right to believe it, wish you well and be glad you found something that doesnt have leather soles and still makes you happy.

    for the rest of us, it has been pretty entertaining....

    Matt
     
  6. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

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    m@T, that is WHY he keeps insisting that I use the "Enema" therapy. [​IMG] btw. Great summation. [​IMG]
     
  7. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

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    All quotes originally posted by marc37:
    Marc, please read a biology book.... our bodies produce digestive enzymes to digest our food. Most enzymes (which is a protein marc) that is ingested is BROKEN DOWN by various HUMAN pepitidases.... so it does not contribute in digestion. As for your idea that the body will run out of it's supply of digestive enzymes is INANE and points out your lack of high school biology knowledge. btw... how many molecules of "digestive" enzymes do we each have in our lifetime if it is only a limited suppy? And that limiting factor causes old age is even more CRAZY. Talk to me of telomeres and then we can have a discussion.
    It seems you don't even bother looking at the links I posted marc [​IMG] . It makes mince meat of your statements. Here, read it: Enzyme Deficiency arguements
     
  8. marc37

    marc37 Senior member

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    Alot of the skeptical links that T4phage has posted is non-sense. l will address these soon (busy at moment). lf you look carefully at the picture of Ann Wigmore, you will see a lady of advanced age that has: no muscler degeneration, no grey hair, no heavy lines. She used to have a host of health problems including breast cancer and grey hair. No more though, sprouts and grasses put an end to that. Look carefully, she doesn't have a sagging face like alot of old people. Look at her face, full of muscle. She looks 20 years younger than she is. lt's a great photo. ln regards to Kulvinskas, yeah his photo is not the best. Kulvinskas spend years preaching about raw food but spent many years cheating (he [at times] was a bulemic who binged on alot of vegetarian cooked food). He eventually come clean about it. Do what he says not do what he does. His knowledge on health is still the best. Ann Wigmore [on the other hand] never ate one single bit of cooked food after the age of [around] 42. [​IMG] P.S: l didn't mean to say that an older body completely runs out of digestive enzymes, just that they run very low of digestive enzymes. P.S.S: l don't like how T4phage talked about enzyme deficiency using an extracted product. Did the scientist test the enzyme package? l wouldn't use a bought enzyme package either. Maybe he is basing his claims on this package, who knows? l will start getting into the guts of my arguments very soon. l have to get in the mood and concentrate on what l'm doing. Also need time to look up the studies: l am doing this every night, so it won't be too long. Also note: GOD almighty or some intelligence put enzymes in our food for a very good reason. lt was intended for humans to eat so they can strengthen themselves. When you eat lots of sprouts, that strength is certainly undenyable. Digestive enzymes in food work, l should know, l have tried it. Remember, nature and evolution is extremely clever. Science should be very careful when it writes off plant material (eg, enzymes) as useless.
     
  9. Matt

    Matt Senior member

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    hate to say it, but chemo did that to my grandmother. truly. dont know if that is common, but its what happened to her.

    plastic surgery did it for cher....
     
  10. marc37

    marc37 Senior member

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    l strongly dissagree with T4phages skeptic post in regards to digestive enzymes. Why else do old people suffer from poor digestion?Also, why is it that people gain extra energy from eating sprouts? Â (l would love to hear your explanation). P.S: l am also extremely skeptical of nearly all the skeptic articles that T4phage has produced in this thread. l have read the various links many times to know that the skeptics views are utter garbage. l will go into more detail as to why the skeptics are wrong. Just be patient. This topic is going to come to a head very soon. l have alot to say in my defence so stay tuned. This topic is about to come very interesting. P.S.S: my chlorella report will be presented soon. (lt will blow your mind). P.S.S.S: by for now. l'm going for a nice walk down at the park in my good leather sole stitched boots (Grenson mastpiece chukka boot. Fit great mate). [​IMG]
     
  11. Matt

    Matt Senior member

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    ummm

    ......

    dude, rubber soles better for the melbourne winter in the parks out eltham way surely.

    plus - more vegan friendly...no dead cows
     
  12. marc37

    marc37 Senior member

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    (marc37 @ June 24 2005,15:18) The more concentrated and cooked foods you eat, the more the body is forced to rely on it's own enzymes to digest the foods. lf this becomes habit, the body will eventually run out of its self produced enzymes.
    Silly me, there I thought the body would just produce some more of the enzymes needed. [​IMG] MtB
    The body just can't keep on producing sufficient enzymes if it (the body) is not given the tools (minerals) it needs to manufacture enzymes. The body can't run on nothing afterall. To assume that a person will keep on producing digestive enzymes [regardless of the type of diet] is plain foolish and just plain WRONG.
     
  13. Horace

    Horace Senior member

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    I can't wait. Shooman will lay waste (as it were) to the skeptics. Prepare to be blasted. You'll all be sorry.

    Horace,
    follower of Wigmore.
     
  14. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

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    All quotes originally posted by marc37:
    But you are still implying that there seems to be a limited suppy of these 'digestive' enzymes.
    Marc, do you have any knowledge of basic yr 7 biology?? Any highschooler can see this is nonsense. Oh btw. the body CAN keep producing sufficient quantities of 'digestive' enzymes. And the 'tools' that the body needs to make these enzymes (from basic principles).. 1) DNA: the information on how the enzyme is made, 2) Various transcription enzymes to make a 3) RNA copy (of course you need rNTP's for this). Then you need 4) Ribosomes where the RNA is translated by 5)tRNA which carry with them 5) amino acids. Then marc you need various 6) chaperonins and protiens that help the emerging polypeptide assume various (2ndary, 3iary) structures in preparation for transport. Then you need 7)various transport proteins to assist these inactive polypeptides cross the cell wall, then you need 8) a host of various protiens to assist these emerging polypeptides to assume correct but inactive polymers. AND THEN you will need these inactive enzymes brought to the correct located in the digestive system, and finally, they are activated by 9) other protiens... THOSE ARE THE TOOLS. NB. this is jus a very very general overview. Marc, all the building blocks to make more of these "digestive" enzymes can be had from a simple well balanced diet. Not like yours.
     
  15. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

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    Marc's quotes:
    Marc, did you read the article properly? The authors were argueing the claims that were being made for the product, among which; the body running low on enzymes, and that enzymes from 'plants' assist human enzymes in digestion. The same claims you make.
    Marc, ezymes are protiens, do you know that? Our body is wonderfully equipped with protein degrading ezymes such as proteases, and then pepidases which reduce most protiens to their substituent amino acids. Very few proteins (in their native state) survive the passage thru the human digestive tract intact.
    Marc, is part of a natural cycle called ageing. And not because they 'run" out of digestive enzymes. Position statement on Ageing
    Marc, remember to use the thumbnails from Imageshack.
     
  16. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

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    Detoxification: "It's an irrational concept, yet an intriguing idea, that modern life so fills us with poisons from polluted air and food additives that we need to be periodically "cleaned out" ("detoxified"). Never mind that natural chemicals in our foods are thousands of times more potent than additives, or that most Americans are healthier, live longer, and can choose from the most healthful food supply ever available. The elaborate, manipulative hoax of "detoxification" is gaining ground. Many people sincerely believe that their intestines, colon, and blood stream are subject to "clogging" by undigested foods and poisons. Food faddists seem to have a special fascination with bowels, colons, and body wastes.) ....... The detoxification theory can enable con artists to gain great power over their customers by diagnosing and curing "potentially fatal" (but nonexistent) illnesses. "They have to invent the idea of toxins," says Peter Fodor, president of the Lipoplasty Society of North America, "because that gives them something to pretend they can fix." It can be terrifying to believe that one's body is being poisoned by toxins from within. But if this were true, the human race would not have survived, says Vincent F. Cordaro, M.D., an FDA medical officer. "A person who retained wastes and toxins would be very ill and could die if not treated. The whole concept is irrational and unscientific." From: "Detoxification" with Pills and Fasting Here is a good link to quack cancer cures from the Australian Skeptic's Dr. Ray Lowenthal. Marc, drop by and talk to him, he is in Hobart and he is (I don't know if he still is) the Director of Medical Oncology at the Royal Hobart Hospital. PDF file: Cancer Quackery Examined Another one from the Australian Skeptics about raw and cooked vegetables: PDF file: Life in the Raw
     
  17. marc37

    marc37 Senior member

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    l didn't mean to say that an older body completely runs out of digestive enzymes, just that they run very low of digestive enzymes.
    But you are still implying that there seems to be a limited suppy of these 'digestive' enzymes.
    Marc, do you have any knowledge of basic yr 7 biology??  Any highschooler can see this is nonsense.  Oh btw. the body CAN keep producing  sufficient quantities of  'digestive' enzymes. And the 'tools' that the body needs to make  these enzymes (from basic principles).. 1) DNA: the information on how the enzyme is made, 2) Various transcription enzymes to make a 3) RNA copy (of course you need rNTP's for this). Then you need 4) Ribosomes where the RNA is translated by 5)tRNA which carry with them 5) amino acids. Then marc you need various 6) chaperonins and  protiens that help the emerging polypeptide assume various (2ndary, 3iary) structures in preparation for transport. Then you need 7)various transport proteins  to assist these inactive polypeptides cross the cell wall, then you need 8) a host of various protiens to assist these  emerging polypeptides to assume correct but inactive polymers. AND THEN you will need these inactive enzymes brought to the correct located in the digestive system, and finally, they are activated by 9) other protiens...  THOSE ARE THE TOOLS. NB. this is jus a very very general overview. Marc, all the building blocks to make more of these "digestive" enzymes can be had from a simple well balanced diet.  Not like yours.
    That's the thing, you want get all these things from a normal cooked food diet. What is your definition of a well balanced diet??? (l can't wait until l hear the answer).
     
  18. marc37

    marc37 Senior member

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    Why else do old people suffer from poor digestion?
    Marc, is part of a natural cycle called ageing. And not because they 'run" out of digestive enzymes. Position statement on Ageing
    Marc, remember to use the thumbnails from Imageshack.
    T4phage: you say our body is equipped with enough enzymes to break down protein. That is absolute non-sense. Alot of older people report digestion problems after eating meat, why is this??? Think about it and think about the things l have said previously. My arguments are based on common sense. T4phage: you state that poor digestion in old age is simply "old age". THAT IS RIDICULOUS... The "old age" excuse is a cop out. Still the question remains, why do older people have poor digestive problems??? What in old age causes people to degenerate??? You can't answer the question. Admit it. My logic is strongly supported by health knowledge. T4phage: your agruments leave alot to be desired. l will very soon be getting more detailed in my arguments. P.S: l will present the full chlorella report with thumbnails. Don't worry. P.S.S: Everyone, don't believe all the skeptics reports until l have put my arguments forward on why they are invalid. (Just give me abit of time to research these skeptics. As it is, l have argued some of T4phages disputes with success so far. l will continue to do so). lt is so very vital to keep an open mind with this subject; the scientific  reports (presented by T4phage) look good but they ARE NOT correct. l will explain soon. P.S.S.S: my diet is similar to a fruit and vegie diet, however, my diet takes the usual fruit and vegie diet up afew notches [in terms of nutrition]. So if you believe that fruit and vegies are good for you, why would you doubt that sprouts and grass isn't good for you??? l really think that many readers on this board are not using their common sense. My diet isn't scientific, it's a simple healthy diet. So why is it so hard to believe that my diet is good for you. Again, l urge people tp keep an open mind when reading T4phages skeptic material.
     
  19. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

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    Marc, what are 'these things'... ribosomes? tDNA, etc? Do we get them from a normal diet? Well balanced diet? Here: Nutriwatch home page Food Pyramid: USDA food pyramid .... not like yours which include wheatgrass and going shopping between your legs.
     
  20. T4phage

    T4phage Senior member

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    Marc, please READ the articles and links. If you can't be bothered, I can't help you. Any enzyme you eat is digested by the body. Marc, your stomach acids will hydrolyse most proteins.

    Your 'arguements' are based on 'logic' and 'common sense'? PLEASE.. Marc, you don't even know the meaning of the word.
     

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