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What do you classify as "working hard"?

Discussion in 'Business, Careers & Education' started by clubbyjones, Dec 30, 2010.

  1. bluemagic

    bluemagic Senior member

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    "what is work? Work is of two kinds: first, altering the position of matter at or near the earth's surface relatively to other such matter; second, telling other people to do so. The first kind is unpleasant and ill paid; the second is pleasant and highly paid. The second kind is capable of indefinite extension: there are not only those who give orders, but those who give advice as to what orders should be given. Usually two opposite kinds of advice are given simultaneously by two organized bodies of men; this is called politics. The skill required for this kind of work is not knowledge of the subjects as to which advice is given, but knowledge of the art of persuasive speaking and writing, i.e. of advertising. "


    -Bertrand Russell


    How trite!
     
  2. BC2012

    BC2012 Senior member

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    Physical labor: it sucks, for the most part. Mind numbing, body damaging, most anyone (of physical ability) can do it if briefly trained. Hard work on the body, no work on the mind.

    Sales: if you're good at it, it's awesome. Commission pay is a blessing and curse. How hard you work is directly correlated to how much you make, so it behooves you to work hard.

    Doctor: Probably the hardest working of the five. Long, off-beat hours, grueling school to get there, malpractice insurance, super hard to maintain a family life unless you are in a small office. Oh and your job could be real live and death situations on a daily basis.

    Investment Banker: to the person who said using Excel means you're working dumb (or whatever) I challenge you to make valuation models that affect multi-million dollar deals for 90 hours a week and then tell me if there's a better way to make said models than in Excel. Why make proprietary software when Microsoft has made a perfectly good base for you?

    CEO: If you're a good one, this is a non-stop job. Perks, for sure, but loads of stress and decisions that affect your company and its shareholders.
     
  3. deadly7

    deadly7 Senior member

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    CEO: If you're a good one, this is a non-stop job. Perks, for sure, but loads of stress and decisions that affect your company and its shareholders.

    But even if you suck at it you get a payoff that's the GDP of many small countries!
     
  4. Blackhood

    Blackhood Senior member

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    I would argue that CEO is often the hardest job. For all fo the others there is a training program and "right" answers. Even if a doctor kills someone they just go through an M&M conference to prove they tried their best.

    Most CEOs that I've known got there by being the best, but there are no right answers. Every move is a judgement call, and if you make the wrong one, then you're gonna get sacked.

    Not to mention if you sit in a bar of an evening and look around, you can guarantee that the people you see aren't CEOs, they're all still at home doing paperwork.
     
  5. East2West

    East2West Senior member

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    Its all relative to your personality, smarts and your physical ability. But all that aside, the hardest work is doing something you're not happy doing.

    Quoted for truth! I was going to type up some long post to this same point, buy NYR summed it up rather nicely here.
    [​IMG] A great post from one of my favorite posters
     
  6. tesseract

    tesseract Senior member

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    my dad owns a machine shop. Not only does he have to put in the hours, make sales, and win contracts but he has to make multiple pieces for aircraft usually within .005 of an inch or less. Just hogged out 3/4ths of a job and put a hole 1/8th of an inch out of tolerance? $2000 piece of titanium is scrap. I would have to say my fathers job is the hardest. Mentally taxing, physically taxing, routinely requires advanced math. The shop is dirty, loud, most of the raw material is 80lbs plus and before deburring alot of it is razor sharp. Also, since it is his business he works monday through friday 8-8 and saturday and sunday 10-5 at 64 years old.
     
  7. scarphe

    scarphe Senior member

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    The thing about the first guy is that his job sucks, but at least it ends when he goes home his free time is his alone. This is what a lot of lower paid people don't get about people that make more (in some cases). These days, highly paid people are on-call pretty much 24/7. I got reamed by the owner of the company b/c I didn't check my blackberry 5 minutes after getting out of the shower once and didn't see the flashing light before it moved from my table to my pocket, so i didn't get back to him for 30 minutes because i dropped into the subway system. Not only that sort of thing, but professionals have to keep their skills/knowledge current, whatever that means, so on top of being on-call basically all the time, they have homework to do to keep up their skills or stay current in their chosen field. Depending on field, this homework can eat a big chunk of time out of your week.
    seriously you do no t know what you are talking about....
    first in the construction industry there are new types of tools every new types of types of building material that can be used so to say the construction worker does not need to keep up or maintain knowldeg fo his sector makes you sound like an for lack of a better term a classist fucking idiot.

    also in some cases certian construction workers particualry supervisors can be on all the time when dealign with projects that do not stop.
     
  8. BC2012

    BC2012 Senior member

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    seriously you do no t know what you are talking about....
    first in the construction industry there are new types of tools every new types of types of building material that can be used so to say the construction worker does not need to keep up or maintain knowldeg fo his sector makes you sound like an for lack of a better term a classist fucking idiot.

    also in some cases certian construction workers particualry supervisors can be on all the time when dealign with projects that do not stop.


    Um, he's right about the average blue collar worker. Your average machinist works his job and goes home, where he doesn't need to think about what he does all day. Same goes for mechanic, road worker, cable installer, retail shop worker, maintenance staff, etc. I challenge you to come up with a list of positions that don't require college degrees that do require the level of access GQ was referring to. In fact, your example of a construction worker doesn't fit any construction workers I know, and I know a lot of them having grown up in a middle class Italian family.
     
  9. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    all 5, people will argue based on what they have done and that will be the hardest becuase it was difficult for them. but if you are willing to have an open mind they are all hard and demanding in their own way
     
  10. scarphe

    scarphe Senior member

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    Um, he's right about the average blue collar worker. Your average machinist works his job and goes home, where he doesn't need to think about what he does all day. Same goes for mechanic, road worker, cable installer, retail shop worker, maintenance staff, etc. I challenge you to come up with a list of positions that don't require college degrees that do require the level of access GQ was referring to. In fact, your example of a construction worker doesn't fit any construction workers I know, and I know a lot of them having grown up in a middle class Italian family.

    so in which city were you raised? i know in the south of itlay tech changed alot at least for comps that stayed ahead.. and in north it did as well, you all have sorts of new panel tech coming out and new types of specialized conrete mixes just in italy not mentioning the the new techinques and construction tech coming from outside of italy. in our comp we need to keep the workers traioning updated at least once a year... as we generally add a new tecnology that changes the construction process at some level.
     
  11. Big T

    Big T Senior member

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    Well, I started out as a class 1 for about 20 years, till I quit to start a manufacturing company (1989). The I was definitely class 2 to get sales for my business (along with doing virtually every other task). Now I'm class 5.

    They all are difficult and all are easy in their own way. Today, I have far more time on my hands and though many think I may not be doing anything, I am. I probably spend well over 80 hours a week thinking about my plant and business, though I may be there physically for about 35 to 40 hours a week.
     
  12. MasterOfReality

    MasterOfReality Senior member

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    In my industry (mining) I have found that the lowest responsibility positions require the greatest amount of manual labour. No brains, no stress, no worries. Although the pay for a basic level miner is nothing to be sneezed at. The highest responsibility positions are the mine managers and superintendents.
     
  13. crashoran

    crashoran Well-Known Member

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    There will always be hard workers and then workers that don't do squat and still get paid. For example, I have a friend that works in IT for the city and he tells me 90% of his job is sitting around on Facebook until some tiny issue comes up that needs to be fixed. And one day out of the week he "works" from home. He banks a 70K salary.
     
  14. deandbn

    deandbn Senior member

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    "working hard" is "making" or "saving" your boss more money each month than it costs him to employ you, no matter what job you do.
     
  15. LawrenceMD

    LawrenceMD Senior member

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    doctors have responsiblity and stress, but they also get to act like assholes more than just about anybody else - they have people who do all the dirty work for them, and get to yell at people and act like prima donas, and have sales people sucking up to them. so I wouldn't call that all that hard a life .


    sure consultants can be assholes and can pass off the bulk of the work. but not all of them.

    but lets look at surgical residents. my residents work 36hour shifts (every 3 days). they clock in at 6am then leave at 6pm (36hrs later). they go home then have to come in at 6am again for another 12 hour shift.

    sometimes theres down time and you can sleep, but more often then naught they are working like horses for the full 24hours then are allowed decompression (no more surgeries only ward/clinic work) for the next 12. the next day they have to clock in for another 12hours then go home and sleep. clock in at 6am start the whole 36hours then 12hours shifts and repeat.

    some hospitals have surgical rotation 48hr works scheds where they work 48straight and then are off 48hours - pick your poison.

    they make around 48,000 a year with well over 100hours per week. so its a little over minimum wage when averaged out. plus well, they are doing surgeries/wardwork/clinics/ and trying to live a life too.

    I love and respect nurses, but when I see a resident come off a 36hour shift and see a nurse bitching about how she's "beat" for working 8hours +4hours of voluntary overtime and giving him/her shit that needn't be a big deal I'll put that bitch in her place.

    I'll also ask that the Pharma Rep buy my resident(s) dinner/lunch/bfast also if they are offering it to me only.

    I know I'm not an asshole consultant. But let just say I understand why they would be.
     
  16. ramuman

    ramuman Senior member

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    I don't get how being a bit of an asshole plays into how hard your job is. Generally, people that reach a high-level of success had a gift that they found a way to effectively cultivate. It doesn't matter if it's a chef making his bones before starting a successful restaurant or someone busting their tail to get into a good business school. With that success can come a bit of a competitive ego.

    If you like what you do and are passionate about it, then you're fine in my book. If you're not, GTFO. You don't need to belittle someone else's profession to justify your own. That should go both ways.

    To me working hard (if we move beyond the "it's not work if you like it") is doing your job as effectively as possible.
     
  17. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    my dad owns a machine shop. Not only does he have to put in the hours, make sales, and win contracts but he has to make multiple pieces for aircraft usually within .005 of an inch or less. Just hogged out 3/4ths of a job and put a hole 1/8th of an inch out of tolerance? $2000 piece of titanium is scrap. I would have to say my fathers job is the hardest. Mentally taxing, physically taxing, routinely requires advanced math. The shop is dirty, loud, most of the raw material is 80lbs plus and before deburring alot of it is razor sharp. Also, since it is his business he works monday through friday 8-8 and saturday and sunday 10-5 at 64 years old.

    It could be worse, it could be the millwork industry, not only do you lose the time put into manufacturing a piece, but unlike metal, wood cannot be melted down and reused.
     
  18. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    I don't get how being a bit of an asshole plays into how hard your job is. Generally, people that reach a high-level of success had a gift that they found a way to effectively cultivate. It doesn't matter if it's a chef making his bones before starting a successful restaurant or someone busting their tail to get into a good business school. With that success can come a bit of a competitive ego.

    If you like what you do and are passionate about it, then you're fine in my book. If you're not, GTFO. You don't need to belittle someone else's profession to justify your own. That should go both ways.

    To me working hard (if we move beyond the "it's not work if you like it") is doing your job as effectively as possible.


    What if you hate your job?
     
  19. RSS

    RSS Senior member

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    Forty Style Forum posts a day.
     
  20. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    Forty Style Forum posts a day.

    Only 40? You're idle man, idle! [​IMG]
     

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