What differentiates very high-end bespoke suit vs. bespoke?

[chatty]

So over the last two months I've gotten two bespoke suits from people in NYC. Price was around $2,500-$3,000 for each and I'm quite happy with the result.

But I was just curious though, what separates the super high-end bespoke tailors (e.g. Logsdail or Corvato, etc.) that are $6k and up from the other guys when they are using the same fabrics? Is the contruction that much better? For someone who knows suits, can you actually feel and tell the difference between a $6k bespoke suit vs. a $3k?

Or is there some brand value being priced in because of the famous names of these tailors?

I'm sort of tempted to try getting a suit from that next level from a Logsdail or a Despos, but I am just trying to understand what the premium is for.

 

[TheFoo]

It could be a combination of lots of things: construction and material quality, reputation, consistency, style, etc.

 

[Omega Man]

Price?

I believe in the law of diminishing returns once you get to your bracket and up.

 

[voxsartoria]

Fewer riff-raff customers.


- B

 

[Master Squirrel]

Bragging rights.

 

[taxgenius]

Your'e paying for the unique style and handwork.

May I ask who you used for the two suits and whether you were happy with the results?

 

[courty]

You may not be paying more for anything other than overheads and a name.

 

[chatty]

Well, I'm not really into bragging rights so not really interested in paying up for that.

In terms of materials, I got Dormeuil and VBC in like 120's. So pretty standard stuff that I imagine the higher-end tailors would be using too at a $6K+ price point.

In terms of styling, if you're doing bespoke and kind of have an idea of what you want, then you're sort of in charge of that, no?

Customers, yea, I guess I could be a pain to deal with hahaha

So while I don't expect there to be a linear relationship between price and final product quality, I just want to better understand the value and economics. I don't suspect that every incremental dollar being paid for a $6K custom is going into their pockets. And if it's the same materials, then the extra dollars has to be going into the labor, which means you're paying more for the labor.

So is there just more labor on a higher-end suit? Like more handwork? Requires more skilled tailors that use more difficult techniques, so command a premium salary? And if that's the case, where can one observe these differences? Or are they too esoteric for a novice like me to see?

As for where I got my suits. I got one from Stephen Kempson, who actually shares a showroom with Logsdail. I'm happy with what I got, although I will admit, I'm a novice and don't have an expert eye for fit.

My other suit is from Bhambi, and again, I am happy with what I got. But maybe I just don't know any better. I guess I can share pics if people are interested in seeing their work. Although it may not be representative because for both suits, I asked for lots of tweaks that I thought looked good, but maybe I don't know what looks good.

So debating, do I stick with these, or maybe give something else a try like a Despos or Logsdail? Thoughts?

One may argue, if I can't tell, then I shouldn't pay up and live in ignorant bliss. But I'd rather someone educate me on the techniques and quality differences so I can learn to appreciate these differences. Just like styleforum taught me to appreciate fully-canvassed vs. fused, I want to go a step further.

 

[TheFoo]

Originally Posted by chatty

In terms of materials, I got Dormeuil and VBC in like 120's. So pretty standard stuff that I imagine the higher-end tailors would be using too at a $6K+ price point.
Trimmings and interior materials make a difference, too. The canvas chest front can be bought pre-made and then cut-down, or it can be made from scratch. Shoulder filler can be uniformly-sized, pre-made pads or raw wadding material cut to size. Then there is the workmanship. There can be varying degrees of sewing done by hand versus machine; within each of those contexts, quality and refinement also vary.

Originally Posted by chatty

In terms of styling, if you're doing bespoke and kind of have an idea of what you want, then you're sort of in charge of that, no?
The short answer is: no. Different tailors have different tendencies, preferences, and strengths. They also exercise discretion beyond what you can plausibly control for as a client. Thus, the "style" of the final product is necessarily going to be deeply influenced by your choice of tailor, regardless of the idea you bring to him.

Originally Posted by chatty

So is there just more labor on a higher-end suit? Like more handwork? Requires more skilled tailors that use more difficult techniques, so command a premium salary? And if that's the case, where can one observe these differences? Or are they too esoteric for a novice like me to see?
Yes, there can be more labor--but that doesn't preclude the possibility that some high-dollar suits are made the same as cheaper ones. Generally, it seems that more, better handsewing allows for better shaping and better comfort. Also, in some instances, machine-sewing is just ugly--like pick-stiching.

 

[teddieriley]

I would pay more so my suit doesn't have the name "Bhambi." ...kidding.

 

[taxgenius]

Originally Posted by chatty

Well, I'm not really into bragging rights so not really interested in paying up for that.

In terms of materials, I got Dormeuil and VBC in like 120's. So pretty standard stuff that I imagine the higher-end tailors would be using too at a $6K+ price point.

In terms of styling, if you're doing bespoke and kind of have an idea of what you want, then you're sort of in charge of that, no?

Customers, yea, I guess I could be a pain to deal with hahaha

So while I don't expect there to be a linear relationship between price and final product quality, I just want to better understand the value and economics. I don't suspect that every incremental dollar being paid for a $6K custom is going into their pockets. And if it's the same materials, then the extra dollars has to be going into the labor, which means you're paying more for the labor.

So is there just more labor on a higher-end suit? Like more handwork? Requires more skilled tailors that use more difficult techniques, so command a premium salary? And if that's the case, where can one observe these differences? Or are they too esoteric for a novice like me to see?

As for where I got my suits. I got one from Stephen Kempson, who actually shares a showroom with Logsdail. I'm happy with what I got, although I will admit, I'm a novice and don't have an expert eye for fit.

My other suit is from Bhambi, and again, I am happy with what I got. But maybe I just don't know any better. I guess I can share pics if people are interested in seeing their work. Although it may not be representative because for both suits, I asked for lots of tweaks that I thought looked good, but maybe I don't know what looks good.

So debating, do I stick with these, or maybe give something else a try like a Despos or Logsdail? Thoughts?

One may argue, if I can't tell, then I shouldn't pay up and live in ignorant bliss. But I'd rather someone educate me on the techniques and quality differences so I can learn to appreciate these differences. Just like styleforum taught me to appreciate fully-canvassed vs. fused, I want to go a step further.

Would love to see pics!

 

[Kuro]

Originally Posted by mafoofan

It could be a combination of lots of things: construction and material quality, reputation, consistency, style, etc.

Originally Posted by voxsartoria

Fewer riff-raff customers.


- B

Originally Posted by Master Squirrel

Bragging rights.

Originally Posted by courty

You may not be paying more for anything other than overheads and a name.

to differing degrees, a combination of all of the above (same thing with shoemakers, shirtmakers, etc.).

 

[gherrmann]

Originally Posted by chatty

As for where I got my suits. I got one from Stephen Kempson, who actually shares a showroom with Logsdail. I'm happy with what I got, although I will admit, I'm a novice and don't have an expert eye for fit.

As I understand it, Stephen doesn't do bespoke.

 

[chatty]

Originally Posted by gherrmann

As I understand it, Stephen doesn't do bespoke.

Actually, since I'm a novice. How would I know if it's true bespoke or not? I know Stephen isn't the actual cutter, sewer etc. But I did have a basted fitting and multiple fittings after that. So in your opinion, what makes Kempson not bespoke? Maybe he was modifying an existing pattern? These are touchy questions that I don't feel comfortable just confronting him, especially since he's such a nice guy.

 

[taxgenius]

Originally Posted by chatty

Actually, since I'm a novice. How would I know if it's true bespoke or not? I know Stephen isn't the actual cutter, sewer etc. But I did have a basted fitting and multiple fittings after that. So in your opinion, what makes Kempson not bespoke? Maybe he was modifying an existing pattern? These are touchy questions that I don't feel comfortable just confronting him, especially since he's such a nice guy.

That's the question.

Any idea who does the cutting and sewing?