what are the disadvantages of cheap pocket squares?

[Naive Jr.]

I know some disadvantages of cheap shirts, cheap trousers, not so cheap Smedley Sea Cotton (quality?) t-shirts, cheap and not so cheap cotton and wool socks, etc.

But since I only have two woven silk pocket squares, I don't know (besides supporting exploitation of labor in third world countries) the disadvantages of cheap priced silk pocket squares.

Please advise me.

 

[DocHolliday]

Limited selection -- very hard to find attractive patterns
Flat, machine hemmed edges
Dull, dead colors and lifeless silk, sometimes

The first one is the main problem. I end up paying for aesthetics. Thankfully, there are very nice squares available at reasonable prices these days, such as through Kent Wang and vintage on eBay. So no need to resort to department store cheapies, unless you just happen to find a good one.

 

[Atgemis]

This is an excerpt from the blog Le Noeud Papillon

Pocket Squares - How Can You Tell The Difference?


In the world of pocket squares there are major differences between the offerings of different fashion brands. Pocket squares until four or five years ago were not readily available in many stores. It was not until after 2008 that we began to see their resurgence. Some tailoring houses, especially those on Savile Row, will tell you that they never stopped selling pocket squares (pochettes in French), and they would not be lying, but those stores are few and far between than the ones currently marketing their goods on websites such as Mr. Porter. Of all the web stores out there, Mr. Porter has the greatest selection of pocket squares and for this reason I am using their current selection to show you a few points about these little squares.

1. What is the ideal dimension?

Amongst the sartorially inclined old world - the 42 x 42cm is considered the most luxurious full bodied pocket square however with the changing of the guard and the breaking down of traditions, the slimming up of lines and the tightening of pockets, there has been some push towards the 36 x 36cm pocket square. The reason is that the 42 x 42cm on a modern suit can push the breast pocket out and alter the contours of the suit. In this case, it is a question of how much dandy do you want? If you are likely to make a rose or a fist out of your pocket square, the bigger the better. If you are wanting squarer lines, go the smaller.

2. What sort of fabric do I want for a pocket square?

Silk is preferable according to tradition. However, recently I had a dialogue with my friend Giovanni from Milan who said 'I don't want a shiny thing in my pocket, can you make me one with dull colours for a normal day wear jacket'. He was right of course, Italians are always right when it comes to fashion. There are times when you are wearing a cotton jacket or a dulled sports jacket where silk looks too opulent. In this case I would recommend cotton, linen/cotton and maybe even try the Drakes of London wool squares. Whatever you do, don't use synthetics.

3. Woven, digital printed or screen printed?

It is a matter of horses for courses. The most revered pocket squares are the screen printed variety or what some term 'corrosive printing'. To be frank, I do not know enough about corrosive printing to offer a detailed description of the process involved, suffice to say that it is a technique where the ink is allowed to bleed through to the other side of the silk. It is, from my understanding, a form of screen printing.

The process involved in a screen printing is exceptionally long winded, far more than digital printing, which is why it is more highly sought after. Brands such as Turnbull & Asser, Charvet and Hermes are famous for their screen printed silk squares. Often the process starts with developing a screen which can cost anywhere from 150 euros to 500 euros or more. In the case of Hermes, the set up costs, given the number of colours they run, is very high, hence the price tag they ask for on some of their more elaborate designs. What is more, the process of screen printing, which to this day is mostly done by hand, is labour intensive and subject to more human error owing to the amount of labour. To develop a screen, most companies insist upon a minimum number of metres to run in the chosen silk to make the set up viable for them. Often companies will ask for a minimum 100 metre run of silk per screen design. Although one can change the colour combinations of this run, it must be in the one design (the screen).

In my experience, the best pocket squares in the screen printed variety are made on 12 to 16 mommes silk twill. Twill, which has its grain on the 45, is the ideal fabric to use for printing. Why twill seems to take the ink so well is still a mystery to me and has not been answered by any of my contacts.

Woven silk is a completely different process from screen printing. Woven silk is very similar to the existing silk ranges we have here for our bow ties at Le Noeud Papillon. The silk is made using a jacquard loom using a much lighter warp and weft of silk. The beauty of a woven silk pocket square is texture. In an example I own from Hermes, the silk has been woven with an H running through the satin. This is a very unique technique and requires a very special loom and silk to ensure the lightness of the pocket square at the end of production. Below is an example of a woven pocket square from Alexander McQueen. By enlarging the image you will be able to see that the logo is woven into the pocket square as opposed to being printed. Whilst I was once only interested in screen printed pocket squares, I am slowly coming around to the woven variety after seeing a number of samples of Brioni and Stefano Ricci pocket squares in Italy.

Digital printing has taken over the market for pocket squares. It is now dominating the bulk of pocket squares available. There are some reasons that one would choose a digital pocket square and they are reasonably obvious. Given that screen printing permits a smaller number of colours and that set up costs are very high and that there is a heavy reliance upon human labour, many companies are turning to digital printing to put their designs into play. The cost of digital printing is substantially lower to set up your design and the designs are limitless because in digital printing you are able to print whatever design you want - even, for example, a family portrait. In the age of Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop, it is therefore preferable that many designers are able to translate their designs exactly as they create them - and for this reason, we are seeing more and more companies turn to digital printing. The flip side is that the ink will not sink through to the backside, so you are left with a ghosting effect on the underside of the pocket square.

TIP: Many websites have a funny little thing that they do to prevent you working out whether it is digitally printed or not. They fold the pocket square over by two folds so as not to reveal the underside.

4. Do I need a roll stitch?

The answer is no. Roll stitching, especially hand roll stitching, is very much a prestige element to pocket squares which gives the owner an element of pride in the pocket square, a certain artisan touch. However, when trying to create square lines on a pocket square, especially in the vein of Mad Men, nothing gets more in the way than a roll stitched hem. Again, it is simply a matter of horses for courses. If you are making an elaborate display of your pocket square, a roll stitch is better. If you are going for straight lines, maybe not. It all comes down to the look you are trying to create on that particular day.

An example of a woven pocket square by design house Alexander McQueen​

An example of a non roll stitched hem - a frayed hem, by Etro​

By all accounts, the ghosting effect on the underside indicates that this is likely to be a digitally printed pocket square​

​

A classic. Judging by the edges you can see that this is a twill silk by Turnbull & Asser. This is an example of a delightfully light screen printed pocket square.
​

 

[JLibourel]



Limited selection -- very hard to find attractive patterns

Not these days. There are plenty of lively, attractive square to be had at low prices from outfits like Macy's and JAB.

Flat, machine hemmed edges

Probably true, but immaterial if you puff your silken square, as I always do.

Dull, dead colors and lifeless silk, sometimes

Not that I've noticed. I've picked up some very nice squares on sale at JAB for $12 or so in recent years.

Frankly, except for the hemming issue, I can't seen any drawbacks to cheap squares.

 

[Naive Jr.]

Dear Dr. Holliday,

Aren't you the prolific poster on Ask Andy whose avatar shows a moustached official in a dark suit sitting at a huge office desk with an American flag on a pole behind? Didn't we have a quarrel because my thread asked about waistcoats [personification substitute] and you wrote about musicians [personification authentic] who wear them? (B.C.: Before Cabbage banned me after I objected to double Transatlantic shipping of imported European manufacture back to customers in the Old World - later after the hurricane struck, his reply to my inquiry if he is now a believer was he now sends his Italian super socks and exclusive Swiss knits by duck back over the Ocean, and as emerited censor passes the buck.)
Thank you very much for taking the trouble to post your advice. What you say about aesthetics seems to me in general true - the more beautiful costs more. [Metamorphosis of pain.]
Your recommendation of Ken Wang is occasion for me to say the Atlantic Ocean for me ain't cabbage. I am so provincial to believe anything except Filson and Bill's worth buying must be available here in Europe, and Macy's is far away somewhere in Manhattan. I remember Mr. Wang as very courteous when I made the mistake of presenting the hypothesis that strange apparations on the website whose owner has a fanatic following here might be caused by a virus. Mr. Wang's excellent manners incarnated in his friendly post, amidst indeed a storm of **** authored by Cabbage's brethren in spirit forseeing in my sacrilege capital loss for their high priest's Golden Calf, was unforgettable contrast. Thank God the Style Forum sheriff stopped the lynching and saved my life.

 

[DocHolliday]

No, that isn't me. I don't think I've ever had an avatar that wasn't Val or the real Doc.

Accept no substitutes!

 

[Naive Jr.]

Dear Atgemis,

Thanks very much for your awesome post. At first look I was astonished by its professionality, vainly flattered by the illusion you wrote it for me, then I realized you took the trouble to copy the text for my instruction, leaving out the extreme right to keep me guessing. I like the photographs of various pocket squares very much - and the Australian or immigrant to Australia talks about pocket squares from Europe! His comment about the last phtographed pocket square does not refer as does Doc Holliday to the quality of color. My girlfriend objected that the color of the cheap pocket square shown online hypnotizing me is not the color name given it by the firm whose website advertised it, and I used the Turnbull and Asser handkerchief labeled with the same color name for comparison. The chat salesman conceeded at once, I was quite relieved to know everybody agreed with everybody, and said he intended to notify the firm's website command to change the false color label to the correct name. But he insisted only the smaller size was offered, not the larger, and put the blame on my impressionability to the Turnbull and Asser handkerchief, which is in the larger size. Although he doesn't wear pocket squares, he found his notes and explained there are a few old ones still advertised which are larger, but his firm offers the smaller size now. Because his firm's pocket square experts have experimented to ascertain a pocket square of smaller size fits better in the jacket pocket. I think I impressed him by my concise formula: Too big bulges, too tiny drowns. (Thanks to lessons learned here on Style Forum from patient instructors.) My simple-minded inclination in cheap pocket squares is focused on color, although such one-colored squares almost always have a second colored edge, which enhances the main color outlined. You can also recognize my financial motive to ask the thread's question, because T&A cost £55, a skyscraper sum for a midget trouser pocket like mine.
PS: I've read through this Australian report you were so kind to post for me, but where are the disadvantages of cheap pocket squares elaborated in it?

 

[David Reeves]

Why are you even trifling yourself with this? a Charvet costs a piffling $150-$200 max.

 

[Naive Jr.]

Dear JLib.,

Thanks for your encouragement. I tried to write and send you a message in reply, but somehow it vanished like a too small pocket square in the jacket pocket of my cell phone screen into invisibility. And I must have inadvertently doubled posts of others here, too. Mea culpa, mea maxima culpa

 

[Naive Jr.]

Dear Mr Reeves,

You identified my U.F.O., I forgot what kind of suppression or repression that's called in psychanalysis, it's true, I read the name, but I never investigated it, and somehow went on dreaming. And by the way, as far as my Style Forum curriculum goes, I don't recall Charvet ever having been mentioned before [This observation was in reference to other threads' instruction in pocket square kindergarten, not to my later enlightenment in which I became aware Mr Reeves himself initiated this thread with Charvet]. I associated a haute couture men's shirtmaker in Paris with the name. Its range transcends my grasp at present, but I could study images if offered online for my aesthetic betterment, and dream of a beautiful future? But I remember you because you are a well-versed tailor in London, correct? Incorrect! I just checked - you do bespoke in Big Apple (I want to show I know at least one synonym.) PS: I have awoke from deep hynosis to discover there is no mention of Charvet on this thread besides Mr Reeves', so my U.F.O. is squared as an imagined, is reaction to Mr Reeves' fiction, as if Charvet had been previously mentioned by name by someone besides Mr Reeves to consider in this thread - which asks about disadvantages of inexpensive pocket squares. That expensive pocket squares have an explicit disadvantage is evident to those whose pockets are in need. Maybe the Australian whose own enterprise is not baptised in English implies Charvet if the latter uses the French word pochette, as Duchamp does. [And now I checked beyond Mr Reeves' profile to his website, where his subtitle reads: Modern ENGLISH (my capitalisation) Tailor. Some say NYC in relation to the rest of the country has a special status, if this is the case with London and England as well I do not know, but it seems Mr Reeves understands himself as representative of English TAILORING in NYC. As an alien in New York, Mr Reeves has perhaps noticed the meaning of the root of his expression piffling - piff turned inside out, like a glove or sock: "superior to the average", "Also a potent strain of weed (cannabis) of purple color" - in point of piff and puff.] And now I read Charvet doesn't just mean high-end shirts, it also is name for a kind of cloth, perhaps used for pochettes?

 

[juicyas]

These might not be the best in the world but you can get 5 for the price of 1 of the type of the ones you are talking about. The quality is not luxurious but it is good enough for a small piece of fabric in your pocket I would think:

Patterned Pockets: https://www.aussieties.com.au/pocket-squares/patterned-pocket-squares.html
One colour pocket squares: https://www.aussieties.com.au/pocket-squares/plain-pocket-squares.html

The most expensive one there is $8 AUD !!! That's incredibly cheap

 

[stylish_raven]

These might not be the best in the world but you can get 5 for the price of 1 of the type of the ones you are talking about. The quality is not luxurious but it is good enough for a small piece of fabric in your pocket I would think:

Patterned Pockets: https://www.aussieties.com.au/pocket-squares/patterned-pocket-squares.html
One colour pocket squares: https://www.aussieties.com.au/pocket-squares/plain-pocket-squares.html

The most expensive one there is $8 AUD !!! That's incredibly cheap

thats ridiculously cheap. BTW guys in HM I got some really cheap ones, like 5 euros