1. And... we're back. You'll notice that all of your images are back as well, as are our beloved emoticons, including the infamous :foo: We have also worked with our server folks and developers to fix the issues that were slowing down the site.

    There is still work to be done - the images in existing sigs are not yet linked, for example, and we are working on a way to get the images to load faster - which will improve the performance of the site, especially on the pages with a ton of images, and we will continue to work diligently on that and keep you updated.

    Cheers,

    Fok on behalf of the entire Styleforum team
    Dismiss Notice

What are the best friends of your country?

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by ernest, Feb 21, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    41,568
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    In Hiding
    I never fully appreciated the profound truth of that "Arguing on the Internet is like ..." poster until I let myself get sucked into this thread.
     
  2. ernest

    ernest Senior member

    Messages:
    2,564
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Location:
    PARIS
    (ernest @ Feb. 25 2005,17:50) How many US dead in Vietnam?
    58,000. Â The percentage of black soldiers killed in action was actually lower than the percentage of black soldiers in the Army and Marines as a whole at that time.
    Where ca I check what you say? And what was the % of the black in the US population?
     
  3. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    41,568
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    In Hiding
    As they used to say on US after school specials, "Consult your local library."

    12%.
     
  4. Roy

    Roy Senior member

    Messages:
    1,051
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2004
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    (globetrotter @ Feb. 25 2005,23:38) the french are so hung up on being a world power that it seems clownish to everybody else.
    Being a world power is not only connected with the army and even the less with just one war 50 years ago.. Look at the situation now. What countries are the world power now? In term of economy, culture, influence on the world, language, army, sport, industry??? P.S. don't tell me Isreal.
    You are not seriously saying that France is still a worldpower are you? A large part of your economy is funded by subsidies from the European Union... My country is paying a sh*tload to the EU and gets bubkes in return. Quite a lot of the Dutch feel like the laughing stock of Europe because we just keep on paying and paying and getting relatively little out of it. While France and Germany were ignoring the rules of the EU and extracting money out of it. The worst however are countries like Greece, Spain and Italy. But at least they admit to it...
     
  5. ernest

    ernest Senior member

    Messages:
    2,564
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Location:
    PARIS
    The Russians defeated the Germans in WWII. Germany held nothing back when it attacked Russia on 22 June, 1941. It had nothing to fear from the Brits and the US was not yet in the war.The Germans destroyed 9 Russian armies (about 90 Russian divisions; 1,800,000 men) in 4 battles between June-October, 1941. Then, it began raining and the German tanks bogged down in the mud. Their army nearly got to Moscow, after the mud froze, by late November, 1941, but its had been already nearly freezing to death for 1-2 months. The Russians launched a huge counterattack on 5 December, 1941, TWO DAYS BEFORE Pearl Harbor took place, and the Germans nearly collapsed. It recovered largely by the following summer, but then really lost the war at Stalingrad in the fall-winter of 1942. Germany's final real effort to win was to try to rebuild again for the next summer, 1943, but it all ended for them at Kursk. After that, there was only retreat for the German army and no really large offensive again, as even the Battle of the Bulge was a rather weak effort on its part.
     
  6. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

    Messages:
    13,141
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2004
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    (drizzt3117 @ Feb. 25 2005,23:14)
    Why do you need to always repeat that without US France would be German (as if France has been existing for 200 yeards like US) as you can beat Germans only because you are 2 times more than them? Don't forget that without French, US wouldn't have existed in 1939. And that G Bush is French.
    This is not a proven fact, and there is much evidence that would suggest the US would have won the war w/o the French naval intervention (although Lafayette played an important and undeniable role)
    the key battle of the US revolution was Yorktown and there were more French soldiers and sailors there than American ones.
    That may have been true, but only because much of the Continental army was driving the British up the Yorktown peninsula through harassment tactics. I would argue the most important battle of the American Revolution was the battle at Saratoga, which turned the tide of the war. Likely the French wouldn't have gotten involved if it didn't seem like the Americans had a real chance to win, and after this, support from the Continentals swelled. My sources showed that the French had 4000 ground troops and 5000 sailors to the US' 12000 ground troops, fwiw.
     
  7. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

    Messages:
    13,141
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2004
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Originally Posted by drizzt3117,Feb. 25 2005,23:12
    The US mobilized over 10 MILLION troops for WWI, although only about 3 million were sent over to Europe before the war was over. That was about 1/3 of the POPULATION of Germany. They were even stronger for WWII, and while in 1939, Germany was stronger than the US, it didn't take long for the US to mobilize its forces in a way that would have overwhelmed the Germans. It's true that the US didn't need a strong military between the wars, because we have no enemies within range (or so we thought) but if Germany was our neighbor, we would have kept pace in terms of arms, because they would have been a threat. Even if they were on our border and invaded, conquering the US is almost imposslble in even the most optimistic scenario... the US is much larger than even European Russia, and our industrial base is widespread. This whole discussion is just ridiculous, this is like a war fantasy league.
    The Russians defeated the Germans in WWII. Germany held nothing back when it attacked Russia on 22 June, 1941. It had nothing to fear from the Brits and the US was not yet in the war.The Germans destroyed 9 Russian armies (about 90 Russian divisions; 1,800,000 men) in 4 battles between June-October, 1941. Then, it began raining and the German tanks bogged down in the mud. Their army nearly got to Moscow, after the mud froze, by late November, 1941, but its had been already nearly freezing to death for 1-2 months. The Russians launched a huge counterattack on 5 December, 1941, TWO DAYS BEFORE Pearl Harbor took place, and the Germans nearly collapsed. It recovered largely by the following summer, but then really lost the war at Stalingrad in the fall-winter of 1942. Germany's final real effort to win was to try to rebuild again for the next summer, 1943, but it all ended for them at Kursk. After that, there was only retreat for the German army and no really large offensive again, as even the Battle of the Bulge was a rather weak effort on its part.
    The Germans had several million troops held in reserve in France, preparing for a possible invasion of England, and had several hundred thousand troops (and their best commander) in Africa... these troops may have turned the tide in 1941. The Germans also held back their most powerful weapons, Sarin, Tabun, and VX, which would likely have won the war for them.
     
  8. Manton

    Manton Senior member Dubiously Honored

    Messages:
    41,568
    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2002
    Location:
    In Hiding
    False.
     
  9. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

    Messages:
    13,141
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2004
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    By the end of the war the United States had provided the following aid:

    Great Britain...................$31 billion
    Soviet Union...................$11 billion
    France...............................$ 3 billion
    China...............................$1.5 billion
    Other European..........$ 500 million
    South America.............$400 million

    The amount totaled: $48,601,365,000.

    These are in 1940 terms, in today's values, that is $23,832,686,605,516 or twice the US GDP in 2004...
     
  10. ernest

    ernest Senior member

    Messages:
    2,564
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Location:
    PARIS
    (ernest @ Feb. 25 2005,23:57)
    the french are so hung up on being a world power that it seems clownish to everybody else.
    Being a world power is not only connected with the army and even the less with just one war 50 years ago.. Look at the situation now. What countries are the world power now? In term of economy, culture, influence on the world, language, army, sport, industry??? P.S. don't tell me Isreal.
    You are not seriously saying that France is still a worldpower are you? A large part of your economy is funded by subsidies from the European Union...
    Rubbish.. At least we can say we have an economy. What is Holland making appart flowers and bicycles and salami? We export worldwide : food, clothes, airplanes, satelites, rockets, weapons, our language... What do you export?
     
  11. ernest

    ernest Senior member

    Messages:
    2,564
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Location:
    PARIS
    Then who is a world power? I am listening...


    Why do you stay then? Are you so stupid?
     
  12. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

    Messages:
    13,141
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2004
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    In my opinion that the only two current world powers are the US and China, if you're referring to Sovereign countries. Russia may regain world power status if it can figure out its economic problems, and the EU may emerge as a world power, if they can work together as one, which is debatable.
     
  13. nightowl6261a

    nightowl6261a Senior member

    Messages:
    1,457
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Remeber this motto Ernest:

    America the Beautiful, God Bless America,
    America. America.
    God shed His grace on thee,
    And crown thy good with brotherhood,
    From sea to shining sea
    O beautiful for heroes proved
    In liberating strife
     
  14. Roy

    Roy Senior member

    Messages:
    1,051
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2004
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Originally Posted by Roy,Feb. 26 2005,00:07
    the french are so hung up on being a world power that it seems clownish to everybody else.
    Being a world power is not only connected with the army and even the less with just one war 50 years ago.. Look at the situation now. What countries are the world power now? In term of economy, culture, influence on the world, language, army, sport, industry??? P.S. don't tell me Isreal.

    You are not seriously saying that France is still a worldpower are you? A large part of your economy is funded by subsidies from the European Union...

    Rubbish.. At least we can say we have an economy. What is Holland making appart flowers and bicycles and salami? We export worldwide : food, clothes, airplanes, satelites, rockets, weapons, our language... What do you export?
    Have you ever heard of Royal Dutch/Shell? Or Unilever? Our country is largely responsible for the succes of the Palm Projects in Dubai as our engineers have the know-how, how to regain large areas of land from the sea. For your information, the European Space agency is located in Holland. The U.S.A. contracted a Dutch shipyard to build three ships, Dutch Fashion Designers become increasingly popular (Braez/Viktor & Rolf). Furthermore i'd like to say that Hollands Agriculture is more efficient than the French. I dare even say that our Agricultural exports amount to more €s than the French... But that is just a drop on a hot plate since Agriculture is not an important revenue source anymore. But I am not afraid to say that the standard of living in Holland is higher than in France.
     
  15. Roy

    Roy Senior member

    Messages:
    1,051
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2004
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Amen.

    I fully agree to this.
     
  16. nightowl6261a

    nightowl6261a Senior member

    Messages:
    1,457
    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Location:
    Atlanta
    And the Dutch are nice people.
     
  17. Roy

    Roy Senior member

    Messages:
    1,051
    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2004
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    We have to be, we're a small country so we have to suck up to the big boys [​IMG]
     
  18. drizzt3117

    drizzt3117 Senior member

    Messages:
    13,141
    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2004
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    (ernest @ Feb. 26 2005,00:15)
    the french are so hung up on being a world power that it seems clownish to everybody else.
    Being a world power is not only connected with the army and even the less with just one war 50 years ago.. Look at the situation now. What countries are the world power now? In term of economy, culture, influence on the world, language, army, sport, industry??? P.S. don't tell me Isreal.

    You are not seriously saying that France is still a worldpower are you? A large part of your economy is funded by subsidies from the European Union...

    Rubbish.. At least we can say we have an economy. What is Holland making appart flowers and bicycles and salami? We export worldwide : food, clothes, airplanes, satelites, rockets, weapons, our language... What do you export?
    Have you ever heard of Royal Dutch/Shell? Or Unilever? Our country is largely responsible for the succes of the Palm Projects in Dubai as our engineers have the know-how, how to regain large areas of land from the sea. For your information, the European Space agency is located in Holland. The U.S.A. contracted a Dutch shipyard to build three ships, Dutch Fashion Designers become increasingly popular (Braez/Viktor & Rolf). Furthermore i'd like to say that Hollands Agriculture is more efficient than the French. I dare even say that our Agricultural exports amount to more €s than the French... But that is just a drop on a hot plate since Agriculture is not an important revenue source anymore. But I am not afraid to say that the standard of living in Holland is higher than in France.
    I think wine is an agricultural export for France, so they are probably higher in that category. However, they are suffering lately, apparently they had to boil down something like 2.4 billion liters of classified bordeaux to alcohol because of excess production [​IMG]
     
  19. ernest

    ernest Senior member

    Messages:
    2,564
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Location:
    PARIS
    What is the link with my question about being a world power?

    So China is not a world power ? And luxembourg is one of the most powerfull nation?
     
  20. ernest

    ernest Senior member

    Messages:
    2,564
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2004
    Location:
    PARIS
    Furthermore i'd like to say that Hollands Agriculture is more efficient than the French.

    French agriculture is one of the best in the world and the best in Europe.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by