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What are some things in classic menswear that annoy you?

am55

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In the UK, there is a class of people who have an accent called "Heightened Received Pronunciation". Think Charles Dance from Game of Thrones.
Today, it is just the "educated class" which is full of working and middle class people (and foreigners) and dwarfs whatever genetically inherited RP population there was. This is a side effect of transitioning to (mostly) meritocratic admissions using the interview as a means of abstracting away the bias from expensive education.

You'll also note that your own example of Charles Dance was the son of an engineer (middle class) and a cook (working class) - I'm giving this as a counter example because of your reply to the "aristo" comment implying he was of more stereotypical birth.
 

nreid2946

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Today, it is just the "educated class" which is full of working and middle class people (and foreigners) and dwarfs whatever genetically inherited RP population there was. This is a side effect of transitioning to (mostly) meritocratic admissions using the interview as a means of abstracting away the bias from expensive education.

You'll also note that your own example of Charles Dance was the son of an engineer (middle class) and a cook (working class) - I'm giving this as a counter example because of your reply to the "aristo" comment implying he was of more stereotypical birth.
True. Britain is much less classist than it used to be. But it still exists. Think Jacob Rees-Mogg.

As for Charles Dance, if I recall correctly he's from Plymouth, which isn't known for its poshness. He has his accent because he took specific accent coaching.

I suppose I would call RP the lack of an accent, rather than an accent within itself. Given that it's not really regionally based. Heightened RP, which is different to regular RP, doesn't really exist anymore. I read that the true RP accent is only spoke by something like 0.1% of the UK population.

Hence, I would argue, that the so called "educated accent" is different from that of heightened RP.
 

HotToddy

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Do you mean just extra long shoes that have a narrow end?

I don't like them either.

Generally speaking l, it is wise to stay away from the extremes. Hence no squared-toed shoes and no extra long fronted shoes.
Not necessarily a narrow end, just shoes which are elongated. Italian shoe makers tend to do it but here is a comparison between two Crockett and Jones models.

I just don’t understand the need to stretch out the length of the shoe and I think it looks overly fussy.
 

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Encathol Epistemia

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I'm sometimes annoyed by how swiftly and surely some people resort to deeming something, "costume," thus verboten. They have no authority, of course, and are just weirdos on the internet, so they don't matter terribly much, but neither in the grand scheme of things do flies, which hardly prevents them from being a nuisance.

It's not that I reject declining to dress a certain way for fear of looking too silly, because it's, "costume." If I had no instinct for social self-preservation and less luck even than I've had, I'd run around in full Edwardian dress all of the time. I get annoyed by the underlying lack of appreciation that it's mere bloody-minded pragmatism or sensible cowardice, not some transcendent rule or command that restrains choice of dress. If I dressed as I absolutely pleased I'd probably be living in a studio apartment of a converted dilapidated townhouse in Strawberry Mansion and called, "dapper," or whatever so many times daily that I'd eventually do something that would get a story about me the top spot on the front page of the Inquirer. I accept this constraint with humility, but some people seem afraid of some sartorial God that will smite them with lightening if they don't dress a certain way. This seems like no fun at all, and all of this is really just a lot of fun, and completely unjustifiable to anybody with a sense of personal identity.

Perhaps this arises from my background and perspective. My father's 'pick-up line' to my mother was, "I don't wear ties." He did wear ties later in life, but nevertheless always dressed informally. I never saw him in a suit, other than in pictures from his wedding, until he joined a men's chorus after he retired. I've spent my 'professional life' in offices where the usual standard of dress makes 'Casual Friday' all but redundant. Thus to me, dressing 'nicely' is an act of rebellion against the aggressive, oppressive casualness that my reality is drowning in and, more importantly, self-expression. I wear sport coats, bow ties, pocket squares and boutonnières for me, damn it all!. My 'comrades' are not the lawyers at white shoe firms or investment bankers, but girls with multicolored fluorescent hair and men in tutus. I like rules and find satisfaction in drawing upon historical precedent very well, perhaps because I am mentally disturbed, but cannot help but be angrily annoyed and sneeringly contemptuous of how so much of what goes on here seems dominated by a fearfulness about not playing by rules set by nobody worth obeying and enforced by nothing but vaguely imagined fears.

All humanity is some sort of farce or another! Just have some fun, goddamnit! Why bother otherwise?
 
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nreid2946

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I'm sometimes annoyed by how swiftly and surely some people resort to deeming something, "costume," thus verboten. They have no authority, of course, and are just weirdos on the internet, so they don't matter terribly much, but neither in the grand scheme of things do flies, which hardly prevents them from being a nuisance.

It's not that I reject declining to dress a certain way for fear of looking too silly, because it's, "costume." If I had no instinct for social self-preservation and less luck even than I've had, I'd run around in full Edwardian dress all of the time. I get annoyed by the underlying lack of appreciation that it's mere bloody-minded pragmatism or sensible cowardice, not some transcendent rule or command that restrains choice of dress. If I dressed as I absolutely pleased I'd probably be living in a studio apartment of a converted dilapidated townhouse in Strawberry Mansion and called, "dapper," or whatever so many times daily that I'd eventually do something that would get a story about me the top spot on the front page of the Inquirer. I accept this constraint with humility, but some people seem afraid of some sartorial God that will smite them with lightening if they don't dress a certain way. This seems like no fun at all, and all of this is really just a lot of fun, and completely unjustifiable to anybody with a sense of personal identity.

Perhaps this arises from my background and perspective. My father's 'pick-up line' to my mother was, "I don't wear ties." He did wear ties later in life, but nevertheless always dressed informally. I never saw him in a suit, other than in pictures from his wedding, until he joined a men's chorus after he retired. I've spent my 'professional life' in offices where the usual standard of dress makes 'Casual Friday' all but redundant. Thus to me, dressing 'nicely' is an act of rebellion against the aggressive, oppressive casualness that my reality is drowning in and, more importantly, self-expression. I wear sport coats, bow ties, pocket squares and boutonnières for me, damn it all!. My 'comrades' are not the lawyers at white shoe firms or investment bankers, but girls with multicolored fluorescent hair and men in tutus. I like rules and find satisfaction in drawing upon historical precedent very well, perhaps because I am mentally disturbed, but cannot help but be angrily annoyed and sneeringly contemptuous of how so much of what goes on here seems dominated by a fearfulness about not playing by rules set by nobody worth obeying and enforced by nothing but vaguely imagined fears.

All humanity is some sort of farce or another! Just have some fun, goddamnit! Why bother otherwise?
I'm not sure that the whole "costume" argument is really that some people don't actually dress themselves, but rather simply look like they're attempting to copy Peaky Blinders or whatever other show. You see this a lot with the various clothing companies that have cropped up as a result of the show. That being said, I do agree.

I come from the same background, where most of my family (with the notable exception of my Uncle, who is an architect) dresses with a severe lack of sophistication. Put it this way, I can wear a pair of dark-wash jeans with a tweed jacket, and then I'm suddenly wearing a suit. Soon enough I'll also be working in the tech industry, of which, I hate the dress code.
I dislike how casual our culture has become. I think its because I'm a fairly workaholic "professional" person. But I just love how classic menswear considered causal-wear to be anything without a tie. And these days, most of those people I know think casual is wearing your sweat pants etc.

I've found that clothes are a great tool to express oneself, and have noticed that subconsciously, people express their personality through their clothing. It is no wonder then, then a particularly effective form of gambling, would be that I could make money placing bets on whether or not a specific person was lazy, after having seen him wear a graphic tee-shirt or trainers that were, once-upon-a-time, white, but are now approaching maroon. Or perhaps, the obvious person who is wearing a suit, simply because they have to. With their dress shirt crumpled, and hanging out at the back, or having a tie-knot that looks like a seven year-old tied it.

We don't need to be super serious, and this whole journey is meant to be fun. But what one needs to keep in mind is that I do believe that there is a minimum level of casualness, before one starts looking sloppy.

I don't think there's anything attractive about being a laid-back person, to the degree where it results in one becoming lazy in various aspects in their life. People who dress well, tend to have an appreciation in artistry, and the hard work of others. And who doesn't want to be a respectful, appreciative person?
 

Thomson

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Staying on the subject of shoes, calling a square toe last ‘chiselled’ or, even worse, ‘softly chiselled’.

Glad I got that off my chest.
 

nreid2946

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Staying on the subject of shoes, calling a square toe last ‘chiselled’ or, even worse, ‘softly chiselled’.

Glad I got that off my chest.
I can imagine its how they keep the prices down while not selling "square-toed" shoes.

God. I wish they would just give in already.

Square toed shoes seriously made me ask my Mum to stop buying me clothes.
 

pendragon

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Cutaway collars.
Pocket squares.
Double monk shoes.
The babbling on about horsehair canvas.
The idolizing of Edward VIII.

I could go on and on...
 

nreid2946

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Cutaway collars.
Pocket squares.
Double monk shoes.
The babbling on about horsehair canvas.
The idolizing of Edward VIII.

I could go on and on...
Oh god, the cutaway. What I dislike more than their existence, is how common they are.

I much prefer classic collar styles.
 

am55

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True. Britain is much less classist than it used to be. But it still exists. Think Jacob Rees-Mogg.
There are some parallels between colonial South East Asia and Britain today, with the likes of JRM "useful native families" for the management of the colony on behalf of capital. Britain's true contemporary, hereditary upper class wears the thawb ;)
 

jayvee

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Suits and shirts becoming slimmer and overcoats becoming shorter are my two main dislikes.

I’ve been watching ‘city on a hill’ recently set in the early 90s and I like the way everything fits before menswear went ‘modern’ towards the end of the decade.
 

MarkWinter

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Solaro suits on most guys outside of Italy.

The generalization of "Pitti style" - Those four days are packed with more style than you can ever imagine. You only need to know where to look for it.

Chasing the idea of "having a personal style".
 

Jacob E.

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Wow... it took a whopping 24 posts to get to disliking double monk shoes.

I'll never understand the rationale behind such disdain - except that may be those posting it, have never seen a good-looking pair?
 

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