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WAYWRN Composite -- 25 thumb minimum

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by Claghorn, Feb 20, 2014.

  1. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    This is, and has always been, the case with WAYWRN. There will always be a very overly defensive faction of posters.

    It does give me pause, but I do try, at least on occasion, to give feedback anyways. Because even if some moran wants to fight it, he should at least hear what he is doing wrong, and, its also good info for all the n00bs that are still lurkers, so they can see what is wrong with stuff, which is just as important as seeing a bunch of good fits, or perhaps more important, imho.
     
    2 people like this.
  2. Monkeyface

    Monkeyface Senior member

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    Yes, it's nice to try, and sometimes I do, but most of the times it's just not worth the effort. I do think the fits have gotten worse on average. When people start praising fits that clearly are made up of orphaned suit jackets or things that simply don't fit, the bar is set pretty low.
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    Well, I think on average, or at least the number of people people posting solid fits pretty regularly, has increased since I joined. However, there are a fair amount of fits that I think are turrble, or are ok, but have some turrble items in there, that get ridiculous praise.

    Not just n00bs, but people that have been posting for a while, and who have proved impervious to feedback. So the cycle goes from getting feedback that they fight, to getting praise for executing their "excellent" personal style. I think that the second part should be either that they get no feedback, or that people continue to tell them what parts of their fits are just bad.

    This "no style left behind" idea, that anyone can just press forward with their idea of good, regardless of what it looks like by any version of the broad SF standards of good, since they happen to like it, and that everyone has to capitulate to it, is maddening to me.

    What I have mostly done, is a quick compliment to people whos fits I think are great, and a thumb for the stuff that I think is nice, and you can generally assume that if I did not give a thumb or a compliment, that probably I think your fit sucks. Sure, I may miss a thumb for a fit that I dont hate, but usually, I go with critique by omission.
     
    5 people like this.
  4. chocsosa

    chocsosa Senior member

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    I agree stitch...I think that on average things have improved somewhat with the average poster.. I do think there are those that give advice that can take advice on their style as well.. but that is neither here nor there..personally I dress for me and what I feel comfortable in..but there are probably others that are different..on average though.. the posts in this thread are good..do some sneak in that I feel have no place here? Yup (Im talking about the crap ass selfie in the mirror with f'd up light) but on average it gives everyone on here a resource and exposure to looks that were not accessible 5-6 years ago.. shoot you might see a combo that might inspire you to emulate...and if that happens to even one or two members then this thread is successful IMO
     
    2 people like this.
  5. ridethecliche

    ridethecliche Senior member

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    Take it for what you will, but there is more to style than what is SF approved. The entire logic that seems to come off her that "look at how well xyz italian person does this look". If a poster came in that wasn't said person, they would be chastised for dressing that way and posting here. Those that supposedly know what they're doing get a pass for supposedly knowing what they're doing. Kind of a circuitous logic, don't you think.

    There is little arguing against the fact that there's a certain SF groupthink approved image here and people react pretty strongly to many items that might not fit in there.

    Case in point, people freak out about button down collars with a suit. Vox has written extensively about this, but people still freak out about it.
     
  6. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    I think that you are conflating a lot of things in that post there, buddy.

    I think it is more than fair to say that there are some pretty objectively crappy fits that are posted that get praise because people are just sick of attempting to give meaningful feedback, and because people think that dressing how you want and feeling good somehow equates with looking good.

    Nobody here is forcing people to dress in a way that they don't want to dress, but that does not mean that they should get a pass at dressing crappily and not being told about it.

    And yes, this post supposes that there is such thing as dressing objectively crappily , and I think that that is 100% accurate. If there is a disagreement to that point, then this is probably the wrong forum for that person.
     
    2 people like this.
  7. Murlsquirl

    Murlsquirl Senior member Moderator

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    Every time I want to write and long and thoughtful post, I am on mobile. So I don't...
     
  8. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    Are you saying my post was not long and thoughtful? Because I did that on mobile. Thanks Siri!
     
    1 person likes this.
  9. FlyingMonkey

    FlyingMonkey Senior member

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    I agree that the average quality of fits on SF is improving, and is actually better than it was in the mythical golden days of yore. However, this is not just because of more regularly posters who get the basics, it is also because both the very top and the very bottom end have been smoothed off. So we've got fewer really awful dressers, whether they be absolute beginners, trolls, douchebags or just the plain deluded. However we also have proportionally fewer WAYWRN posters who are just undeniably and consistently outstanding, 'next level' (or whatever one wants to call it).

    I think one of the other reasons is that the general quality of, the attention paid to, and what people expect from, photography, in the WAYWRN thread has increased markedly with the diffusion of higher quality cellphone cameras etc. but also with an increasing number of posters who are primarily taking shots for their own blogs or for sales purposes and just posting to WAYWRN too. There has always been an element of signature poses and attention to location, but this has markedly increased in the last 2 or 3 years. This is, in most ways, no bad thing and it means we can enjoy more magazine-like images, cool locations etc.

    However, I think it's also led to an increased superficiality, which means is that a lot of people see good quality pictures and give them a thumb almost regardless of whether the fit is actually that good or 'useful'. Average dressing just looks better than it used to - and there is some distinctly average dressing appearing more regularly in this thread.

    This doesn't mean that we don't also give credit where credit is due to those who do dress genuinely well - we clearly do. But the secret to really high scoring posts, if achieving this is what floats your boat, is clearly to dress very well AND take good photographs. But I guess that's also the way to get the most out of the WAYWRN these days even if you don't care for thumbs...
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2014
  10. grade

    grade Well-Known Member

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    Well, there is an opening for a new Foo. So if you have these strongly held opinions one way or another, I'd honestly love to read them--perhaps in your own curated thread. I mean, I think part of the reason this thread isn't as active is because who wants to talk about a bunch fits that are generally regarded as good? No one, because it's boring as hell. But a ruthless "why this doesn't work" thread could be great--kind of an evil step sister to the Noodles thread.
     
  11. FlyingMonkey

    FlyingMonkey Senior member

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    One of the great improvements on SF is the decline of snark and outright cruelty since 'the old days', when beginners were slaughtered and when many threads used to quickly degenerate into really stupid slanging matches even between supposedly intelligent posters. I don't miss that aspect.
     
    7 people like this.
  12. grade

    grade Well-Known Member

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    Eh, I don't think unsolicited criticism needs to be snarky or cruel, necessarily. But honest, pointed critiques have led to some of the best discourse on this here forum. I'd point to the cream square and white shirt discussions as examples of that. I mean, people were lining up to get "foofed" back in the day--it can be fun. And on the internet everything devolves, eventually--no reason not to shake things up.

    Oh, and I absolutely agree with your point regarding photography being more emphasized lately.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2014
    1 person likes this.
  13. in stitches

    in stitches Senior member Moderator

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    I have strong feelings, but Im also not a pretentious unforgivingly unapologetic smug asshole windbag. Not to imply than anyone in specific is.

    All the same, you are right. There are generally much more meaty talking points when it comes to critique than praise.

    To that point, I think that I will take your suggestion under advisement, and perhaps I will start a new thread wherein I single out the things that I don't like, and explain why, all while trying not to be a complete and total jerk.

    Thanks!
     
    2 people like this.
  14. TM79

    TM79 Senior member

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    There may be an argument for a SF "uniform" (I'd say navy jacket, light blue shirt, brown tie of some sort, etc. etc.) but that's just a nice look that happened to get really popular. I'm not sure how much actual groupthink there could be that also isn't grounded in a lot of realism and knowledge. If certain things seem they are repeated a lot, I think they may have to do more with fit than telling someone what to look like, and they may be accurate statements.

    I can think of a few outside the box folks who get love on here - Tira, Shoe Artist (I think he's gone already), LabelKing, and probably at least several others I'm just blanking on right now ...

    No one's trying to conform anyone but if you put up a bad fit or something that has no cohesion, you should hear about it in a direct but also respectful way.
     
    1 person likes this.
  15. DonCologne

    DonCologne Senior member

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    I am missing Holdfast, even if the quality of his pics were not the best. He shows that a smile is at least so important as good pics. Unfortunatelly I am not able to do a nice smile, when I do my pics.
     
  16. heldentenor

    heldentenor Senior member

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    TTO was the best at this IMHO. He took "safe," classic looks and tweaked them to make them inimitably his on a routine basis.
     
    3 people like this.
  17. TM79

    TM79 Senior member

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    Good call. You see TTO in a suit and he looks as comfortable as if he was in pajamas. I'm also a fan of his hat game.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2014
  18. sugarbutch

    sugarbutch Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    It seems silly to bemoan the rather populist nature of a thread devoted to popular posts. It's simple enough to quote the 20-thumb fits you think are undeserving and offer your critique, though. If you think something's missing, fill the need!
     
    4 people like this.
  19. Tirailleur1

    Tirailleur1 Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    *sees it is 10 hrs late*


    I am neither at the moment.

    Hope your first class tix didn't go to waist.


    I hope you flew first class. I only associate with people who fly first class.
     
  20. FlyingMonkey

    FlyingMonkey Senior member

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    If you're including my contribution in this comment, I don't think I was doing much bemoaning, I was considering the nature of 'popularity' on SF, because it's not like 'popularity' is some unproblematic thing: "50 Million Elvis Fans Can't Be Wrong!" and all that... But I mean, none of this is important in the grand scale of things. It's certainly not what keeps me awake at night. It's all just for shits and giggles...
     

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