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WAYWRN: Classic Menswear, Casual Style

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by acecow, Jul 6, 2011.

  1. cptjeff

    cptjeff Senior member

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    I don't think 'businesswear with one item changed' is anywhere near what people think of with MC casual. The way I think about it is casual clothing from the MC mindset. SW&D has a very different outlook on clothing. Pember's fit, in terms of it's approach, would go very well in that forum. Cuffed jeans, no collar, sweater that verges on the 'anti-fit' "ideal"...

    Basically, I think of MC casual as a more mature understanding of casual dressing, ranging in formality from a step or two below business casual to a step below traditional business attire. There's going to be an overlap with some SW&D in there (see Fuuma's latest post), but it's not going to overlap with the four clowns on a street corner picture.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2011
  2. Scotty

    Scotty Senior member

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    I think we can stop debating if this thread should exist or not.

    It's on page 11, if it works it will last, if not, it will desappear.

    If we post picures and critic them (just like in regular WAYWRN thread): not only fit but also if it's too casual or too SW&D, eventually some"rules" will establish themselves... or maybe not. :embar:
     
  3. Fuuma

    Fuuma Senior member

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    Well I'm one of the four clowns (who are very well dressed btw, you just don't know the codes) AND the one who posted a real relaxed fit with dress shoes and dress shirt a few posts above.

    Another problem with mc casual: if you're wearing your regular gray dress slacks, dress shoes and a dress shirt you're just a guy who lost his jacket.
     
  4. NAMOR

    NAMOR Senior member

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    Could you give examples of what this looks like? I work in a casual office environment and most men wear slacks and a dress shirt and no one looks like they lost their jacket. And I agree, gshen has excellent MC casual style. I have tried to adopt a few of his stylish points myself.


    really? thats what comes to mind when you see a guy that is wearing slacks and dress shirt? really?
     
  5. cptjeff

    cptjeff Senior member

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    I don't care about the codes. To an outside observer, it looks like crap. If you need to be told something is supposed to look good in order for it to look good to you, it doesn't look good. The one a few posts above looks good, and is one of the ones I would say is in the overlap between MC casual and SW&D. The clothes mostly fit (SW&D's obsession with stacking confounds me), and are neatly presented. The colors are well coordinated. It's a nice outfit.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2011
  6. Pembers

    Pembers Senior member

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    I'm new to SF, but had assumed "MC casual" to be more a euphemism for "normal" casual clothing; as opposed to the more avant-garde styles exemplified by the guy on the far right of Fuuma's photo. I do like slightly stacked, turned up jeans - but the loose fit of the jumper is more by accident than design. Uniqlo is the only place I know selling jumpers to fit someone who's 5"11 with a 36in chest. But I'll definately watch the thread develop a bit longer before posting anything new.
     
  7. DocHolliday

    DocHolliday Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    I think the thread struggles from a lack of consensus on what "MC casual" is. Your description sounds pretty good to me, but what I see in the thread is much more skewed toward Sartorialist-style peacocking mixed with some SF trends, built heavily on the super slim-fit look GQ has been pushing for a good while now. "Mature" isn't the word I'd use -- to me, it seems very youthful and trendy, in a way MC traditionally hasn't been. There isn't anything wrong with that, but I think trying to position it as more sophisticated or inherently superior to what the streetwear guys are doing is a bit silly. Both have their hits and misses.
     
  8. cptjeff

    cptjeff Senior member

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    There's a difference between traditional clothes with a modern fit and untraditional clothes that disregard fit altogether in favor of something avant garde. SW&D stuff is often a reaction against all that stifling old people stuff, regardless of the merits of said classic items. It's very much 'all old sux, go away grandpa!' at heart, and as such, it is immature. And in rebelling against what they see as restrictive and pointless rules, they often create items or do things that look really, really stupid. Think that photo of the guy wearing a t shirt and a giant scarf wrapped halfway up his face. Nice summery look there, sparky.

    And for that matter, slimmer fits aren't all that new. They're a reaction against the baggy that's been prominent for a while, but slim or even tight fits are hardly a revolutionary thing. For example, look at some of the stuff worn in the regency era. Beau Brummel and his contemporaries wore jackets and trousers that would have split if you put on 5 pounds. Their legs had absolutely no secrets. The 60's were slimmer than today. The 70's ball-crushingly so. The late 40's were a reaction against the close fitting, spare styles of the 20's and 30's. The 80's and 90's were a reaction against the 60's and 70's. Slim is hardly revolutionary.

    But if you don't want to use the word mature, which I think is absolutely appropriate, how about using a definition along the lines of, "Casual use of classic clothing"? Casual Classissism?
     
  9. acecow

    acecow Senior member

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    Once again, good fit, but bad camera angle.


    This would benefit from a polo with slimmer sleeves. If I were you and I liked that polo and wanted to wear it, I'd get them slimmed down. The bigger the sleeve, the thinner your arms seem.


    Did you see a lot of jeans with ties looks in this thread or the old WAYWRN? I don't think so. Because it looks ridiculous to an MCer as well, most of the time.


    This is an awesome look. I really like it.


    My opinion is that your baggy clothes don't fit your skinny frame. This looks bad, sorry. Go shop at H&M or Land's End Canvas for S or XS sweaters. They will fit you much better without breaking the bank. Also, you won't look as "geeky"-skinny when your clothes actually fit you well.


    In the picture with 4 guys, I think most of them look pretty good, except for the far right dude who is just ridiculous. Of course, it's not a classical men's look and thus doesn't really belong in this forum. And by don't belong, I don't mean it shouldn't be posted here.


    I agree with you. And I don't think the SW&D forum is silly. But it is different, hence why this thread was started here. Thank you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2011
  10. Scotty

    Scotty Senior member

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    I just have reviewed the first post by acecow.
    Looking at those pictures I think anybody can see what this is about.
    If you take a look at any page of SW&D you'll see how different it is.
     
  11. CodPiece

    CodPiece Senior member

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    Hi gang,
    This is a great thread. I work as a creative in a software/business casual environment, and daily wear is somewhat frustrating. MC is too dressy and SW too, well, 'street' for our corporate bland environment.

    My question is, I've lost about 30lbs, going from obese to merely overweight. I'm at a size 33 waist and my new shirts look like a drag-race parachute billowing out of the rear of my pants. When can one start wearing 'slim fit' shirts? Is it better to dart? Right now I tend to wear linen pants, wingtips/loafers/bucks and a button-down. The fabric and details elevate the outfits, but fit is still a bit of a problem as I continue to lose weight.

    Getting there, thanks to many months of good advice from this forum, I am
    CodPiece
     
  12. NAMOR

    NAMOR Senior member

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    :slayer: :satisfied:
     
  13. Scotty

    Scotty Senior member

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    Yes, thanks. I can see that clearly in the picture, not so in real life. The sleeve hem has buttons so maybe I can fix it just moving them a little as it's not so big as they look in there.

    By the way, this is what this thread needs, good criticism on fit, etc and let it roll.
     
  14. acecow

    acecow Senior member

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    There are 3 things about OTR shirts (when collar size is held constant) that prevent me from wearing them:

    1. Very low armholes on almost all brands.
    2. Sleeves and cuffs not exactly right.
    3. The position of the shoulder seam.

    Unlike a suit jacket, all 3 can be fixed if the shirt was baggy to begin with (as most OTR shirts are, which is another problem, but easier to fix so not as crucial). However, fixing them literally means re-cutting the shirt. It's not a reasonable investment of money or time. Now, why are those things important?

    1. High armholes allow you to lift or extend your hands without pulling on the fabric at the waist, thus allowing the shirt to stay neatly tucked-in after hours and hours of wear.
    2. Correct length of sleeves and width of cuffs allows you to
    a. look neat
    b. have the same amount of cuff showing in all your suit jackets, granted you wear any
    3. The shoulder seam should be at the shoulder bone before the shoulder slope starts. This makes you seem thinner, leaner, with broader and less sloping shoulders.
    4. The correct chest, waist and hip measurements once again make you appear slimmer and more muscular as well as help keep the shirt neatly tucked-in.

    What's the point of my argument?! Go MTM or bespoke. You can choose your fabrics, collars that suit your face, options like MOP buttons, etc. Like they say: "once you go MTM, you can never go back."

    P.S. If you're still losing weight, then just dart your existing shirts for now. Go custom when your weight has stabilized.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2011
  15. Threadbearer

    Threadbearer Senior member

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    First, congratulations on the weight loss. Second, kudos on the excellent username. Third, dart the shirts you really like so that you can continue to wear them despite the weight loss. (That's assuming, of course, that they still fit you in the neck and shoulders.) Toss the rest and replace. Every shirtmaker has a different notion of what slim fit means, so you're going to have to try on a LOT of shirts. Might not be worth doing until you've stabilized at your fighting weight.

    Keep up the good work. :fonz:
     
  16. CodPiece

    CodPiece Senior member

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    Wow, thank you acecow! I had never considered these details.
     
  17. CodPiece

    CodPiece Senior member

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    Threadbearer, thanks for the kind words of encouragement.

    I wish I could begin to tell you how much I've learned from this forum, but space does not allow. I've always had a good eye for quality (champagne taste and beer budget, as my mother loves to say), but the fine points of fit were elusive. Being able to view so many fits and body shapes (along with finding a brutally honest tailor) has been a great learning experience.

    That's why I like this thread so much, it's taking the basics and fine-tuning for the most pleasing proportions. I love jackets, but no one wears them in my business. That means you're much more exposed and vulnerable to a badly cut pair of trousers.

    I hate business casual; hate it hate it hateithateit. Everything shows, particularly my roll top, moobs and computer-slouch shoulders. Great guidance in the various subfora that has been immensely helpful, thank you.

    Me? Right now I'm concentrating on body weight, clothing fit and posture. After that, I aspire to:

    gnatty8
    [​IMG]

    NOBD (for me, this is outstanding; love the jeans and monks)
    [​IMG]

    Fuuma does look truly great in this fit, but I'm 20 years too old to look this good.
    [​IMG]


    And sincerely wish I could pull off ANYTHING by nildawg3. That man has aplomb.
     
  18. james_timothy

    james_timothy Senior member

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    I've come to see anyone wearing a tie without a jacket as just having misplaced their jacket. It's annoying, actually.

    I'd much rather see a jacket with no tie.
     
  19. Lel

    Lel Senior member

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    Are you kidding me? Is this what MC thinks SW&D likes? A sweater that fits like the extra skin left after liposuction and medicore fitting jeans with horrible sloppy cuffs? :facepalm: No wonder why MC has such a negative warped view of SW&D.
     
  20. Threadbearer

    Threadbearer Senior member

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    +1 Unfortunately, in my profession (teaching) very few men bother to wear ties, and even fewer wear jackets, with or without ties. :(
     

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