Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by acecow, Jul 6, 2011.
OK, let me explain my remarks. I ranted because I got a little fed up with what I see and read here. I was honestly trying to point out the need to bridge MC and SW&D, not trying to destroy the thread.
I'm nowhere near as learned as Vox or other members here, so this is just a dump of my thoughts.
Much of SW&D (and much street wear in general) is mean because it is unkind. It tends to flatter people with a certain body type and excludes others. When it flatters, it does so without subtlety (read: lack of refinement) and can tend to the extreme, so a thin person looks skinnier but does not give that person better proportions (read: no elegance). The prevalent styles also favour the young. The MC tailoring is far more forgiving, accentuates the positives and de-emphasizes the negatives of the human body, which in itself is often a beautiful thing. The MC style also accommodates people of all ages and lifestyles. There is a spirit of generosity in traditional, tailored clothing that is missing in the modern street wear.
I find too much streetwear ugly precisely for the same reasons, and what they seem to imply. For example, I read there is more than one way to fit clothes. A person wearing what the MC crowd would find ill-fitting clothes might receive kudos over at SW&D because that is the look. However, the MC fit is intended to bring the best out of a person's body. It comes from knowledge accumulated from generations of tailoring. To run counter to that is to deny a very civilized achievement, for people all want to look good. (I'm Chinese from the Far East, so my values might be more traditional. Maybe some people do want to look ugly today, where ugly = beautiful.) To say that a modern street style looks just as good and is as valid as the traditional style dismisses the thought and effort that developed MC clothing. There seems to be an undercurrent of contempt for civilization, and barbarism is never pretty. (This is more obvious in modern art, architecture, and lots of intellectual clap-trap, I think.)
And it is stupid to thumb one's nose at readily available tools that make people look good, all because of a need to look original and different, which aren't necessarily (and are usually not) good. It is also foolish to abandon a tradition that already provides a rich source for sartorial conversation, only to replace with transitory dialects that few know and appreciate, and probably not as elegant as the one that's already there. Finally, some of the SW&D looks (and the crowd there probably agrees with me) are just silly.
I don't think that the SW&D crowd look for mean, ugly, and stupid mates--nobody does. There is probably much agreement between MC and SW&D on which women are attractive. Since I believe that a person's sense of esthetic is consistent, this means there must be some agreement that can be reached between the MC & the SW&D view. Any inconsistency probably indicates people not following their feelings.
Edit: to clarify with a less snarky response, basically all of the elements that you listed which make 'men's clothing' superior to what you consider to be sw&d looks are actually essential to (often even more so) those looks, and your assumptions are baseless and reveal your ignorance in making huge presumptions about something you clearly know little to nothing about.
In that case, I'm sorry, but perhaps my reactions are based on the sillier looks in SW&D and people I see on the street. Most of the stuff I see doesn't look good to me, but there are definitely good ones.
In my flimsy defense, I did say I wasn't knowledgeable. This is more of a gut reaction than anything else.
If everyone agrees I'm a dork, can we go back to posting pics now?
SW&D seems to be more focused on what looks 'fresh', whereas MC seems to be more focused on structure.
Bad analogy time:
MC is like the 12 bar blues. There is a ton of structure that restricts what a musician can do, but that structure tends to keep the band tight and things generally work out well (although some might call it boring).
SW&D is like modern jazz. There is a lot more room for creativity, and also a lot more risk of noise creeping in, however when done well it can be really cool and fresh.
Asian Afro, your post is full of useless generalizations and gaping logic gaps.
Here is what you really mean: you like MC, you don't like SWD.
one dare to say different people like different things. who would have thought...
tl;dr on this whole dbate:
MC is more traditional than SWD.
I like your pics, actually. I hope that isn't taken as an insult.
Geez, why don't these people who keep griping about going back to posting pics go start their own thread in the MC section where they can post pictures of what MC folks wear when they are dressed casually, and stop ruining this thread.
(Not singling you out Asian Afro, just the most recent example)
I thought that no one was left wearing coat and tie? Like, they all died out years ago?
It is hard to say what ruins this thread most, the words or the photos.
Photos. You can easily skip over the words looking for something of value. The photos are difficult to unsee.
Are you sure?
SF MC WAYWRN is like this:
SF MC casual WAYWRN is like this:
SF SW&D WAYT is like this:
SF SW&D WAYT discussion is like this:
AAAC Bespoke Forum is like this:
Separate names with a comma.