VW Group selling off Lamborghini & Bugatti?

[skalogre]

While looking for the links to the magazines in the other thread, a little sidenote I noticed on the 4TPOXOI site was that apparently the Porsche chairman (whose company has a stake in the VWG) in an interview to a financial publication stated that the two aforementioned marques will be sold off in the near future. Even more dismally, once the Veyron is done with, Bugatti will be relegated to a coach builder (the article translated it as bus builder but IMHO it is most likely a translation error from German to Greek).

Either way, thoughts on this? Jon?

 

[texas_jack]

Bugatti is sort of a joke company anyway. No company can claim any attachment to a former company if no product is made for 40 years.

Lamborghini is cause for concern. These days you can't run a small high performance company anymore. Porsche is the only one left. They will need a big company backing them or they are finished.

 

[Christofuh]

The new guns from Porsche do want to fold Bugatti as it is a freaking money pit. A slim possibility for it to become a on-off builder ( for nutty mega $$$$$ clients from the Gulf, HK and Japan ) remains, however.
Haven't heard a peep as far as Lambo.

 

[skalogre]

Originally Posted by Christofuh

The new guns from Porsche do want to fold Bugatti as it is a freaking money pit. A slim possibility for it to become a on-off builder ( for nutty mega $$$$$ clients from the Gulf, HK and Japan ) remains, however.
Haven't heard a peep as far as Lambo.

4TPOXOI has been ahead of the curve many times in the past so I would not be surprised if they are indeed looking to dump Lambo, especially with the R8 in the picture. I mean it is ironic that Lamborghini has almost zero racing pedigree yet has the VAG's supercars while Audi that has conquered in so many fields had no halo supercar until now.
Everyone knows that VAG can make a monster supercar like the Veyron, I assume that means that they now don't have anything else to prove so they can dump that white elephant...

 

[Dormouse]

I would not be surprised if they are indeed looking to dump Lambo, especially with the R8 in the picture. I mean it is ironic that Lamborghini has almost zero racing pedigree yet has the VAG's supercars while Audi that has conquered in so many fields had no halo supercar until now.

That would be a pity. I like what they did with Lamborghini.

 

[Joffrey]

only if I owned a private equity group...

 

[imageWIS]

Ok, here’s the skinny:

Porsche is expanding its base. Not only has it previously shared projects / parts / technical expertise with VW (914) and Audi (924), but has recently even built a common-chassis vehicle with VW (Touareg / Cayenne). Porsche has expanded from its standard 3-sports car line up, plus the occasional supercar, to include an SUV and an upcoming 4-door sedan (Panamera). Thus, it needs the technical know-how and manufacturing capabilities of VW in order to produce both the sedan (an area Porsche knows nothing about and is completely uncharted water for them) and the Cayenne SUV.

At the same time, the chairman of VWAG supervisory board (and ex-chairman and CEO) is Ferdinand Piëch, a member of the Porsche family, and owner of about 13% of Porsche. Wendelin Wiedeking president and CEO of Porsche is also a member of the VWAG supervisory board. In 2005 Porsche took an 18.65% stake in VW, by this year they now hold 25.1% of VW. The reason according to Porsche is that it will curtail the possibility of foreign ownership of VW…but as we all can plainly see this is just a ruse.

Wendelin Wiedeking has said “no toys anymore” when speaking about Lamborghini and Bugatti, for 2 reasons:

1) Porsche is pissed that they aren’t the top-shelf product of VW (even though they aren’t, you know part of VW…) and has even stated that they want to make a car that will trounce the Veyron (which is easier to do now that the Veyron has been made and Porsche has something to base their own ‘ultracar’ on….)

2) Lambo is at some levels in direct competition with Porsche (911 Turbo vs. Gallardo). As much as Porsche would hate to admit it, the Veyron was the perfect test bed for new technologies, including testing out the DSG gearbox (will become the only automatic offered in Porsches in years to come) and seeing its operational limits.

I don’t think they should get rid of either car company (and who would buy them?) and IMHO should go forward with the Bugatti sedan (and price it against RR) and leave Bentley a bit down-market where it currently is. VW is a profitable company and its interests are wholly aligned to Porsche, so it makes perfect sense that Porsche wants to control VW. Since VW just bought Proton (well, the majority control of the company), I want to see how the Lotus factor plays out (Proton owns Lotus), since Lotus competes directly with Porsche.

Jon.

 

[UMass]

I agree with Porsche on this issue. Both Lambo and Bugatti are not money making ventures they are merely image companies.

Lambo competes with Audi's new supercar and Porsche. Bugatti use's VW/Audi technology. Currently VW/Audi/Porsche has a good brand group;

SEAT
VW/Skoda
Audi
Porsche
Bentley

VW group is in danger of spreading their personnel and technology too thin among the current brands. Look what happened to MB with the whole Chrysler fiasco.

I say sell Lambo and Bugatti to the Chinese.

 

[imageWIS]

Did you read what I wrote? The Veyron was a loss-leader that also served as a test bed for new technologies like the DSG which even Porsche will now implement in its cars. Lambo isn’t actually a money-draining venture for VW, they actually turned a very modest profit of 14 million dollars for 2007 and are now, finally a serious contender to Ferrari. In addition, the Gallardo serves as the basis for the Audi R8, which is a good way to help spread the R&D and manufacturing cost of both cars.

I agree that VW should cut back or get rid of the SEAT and Skoda brands, and focus on its core VW products at that price range while worrying about placing Proton below VW, and Lotus / Audi / Lamborghini / Bentley / Bugatti in their perspective hierarchies. What happened with MB and Chrysler is completely and utterly incomparable to VW and Porsche; they are truly apples and oranges.

It wouldn’t make a lot of sense to sell Lambo and Buagtti to the Chinese, especially since VW just bought a far-east automaker of their own.

Jon.

 

[skalogre]

Seat & Skoda are actually working well for VW...