How so? My post should be read as a paragraph rather than as two disjointed statements. Statement one is the topic sentence and statement two is the explication. I will not do you the disservice of assuming you need further explanation, but I did reproduce the discussion for you below so you have the full context. In any event, Vox, who was the subject (not you), understood perfectly so your service as foil receives full marks. I do not know enough about FNB's background to say anything, but I think that I know enough about Manton and mafoofan to say that each represent one type of social force...meritocracy... that has helped to speed the old forms to oblivion. . . . - B Manton and mafoo embody meritocracy? Wouldn't someone like Ed Hayes or Piobaire embody that? You can be so naive, sometimes (which, to prove that I have read this thread, is not the same thing as dense.) From the summit, the men toiling in the valley and the men living on the flanks look equally tiny, and there is nothing to distinguish one from the other.