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*** Visvim thread: Dissertation on a Japanese Holy Spirit ***

Discussion in 'Streetwear and Denim' started by g transistor, Jul 3, 2014.

  1. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

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    Last sentence is so over the top. It reads like a sketch out of Seinfeld. Imagine sitting there with a pocket knife cutting up 1,000 pairs of shoes while Chinese workers around you are crying. Lol.

    If this is Visvim though, why are they even using a factory in China that would have a 66% factory second rate? That's worse than Allen Edmonds.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017 at 1:06 AM


  2. Fycus

    Fycus Senior member

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    It's also written by Hiroki so may be lost in translation, but I agree it reads pretty funny.

    Dongguan area is one of the only areas left in the world doing a hand sewn goodyear welt. Almost everything has changed over to machines by now, and there are few manufacturers doing the welt by hand (some in China, some in Italy, maybe a handful scattered elsewhere). Hiroki started working with a Taiwanese footwear manufacturer (As seen in below video) who helped them source a manufacturer would would do the hand sewn welt.

    I left out that he specifically chose China, over say Italy for example, to keep costs "competitive".

     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017 at 1:13 AM


  3. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

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    It's hard to know what's going on here because you can't see the inside of the shoe, but from what I've seen, "handsewn Goodyear welt" in East Asia generally means a hand-executed version of a traditional Goodyear welt (whereas the same term in Italy will mean a genuine handwelt).

    Again, hard to know from the video what's going on, but if it's just a hand executed version of a Goodyear welt, the hand process adds nothing to the shoe except marketing value. With a Goodyear welt,the uppers and welt are attached to the insole using a strip of canvas, which is glued (not sewn) to the insole. (That rib is hidden from view -- you can't see it from the outside of the shoe, which is what makes this video kind of pointless).

    This saves the shoemaker effort by not requiring him to sew the holdfast to the uppers, but it also means that the canvas can come unglued, slip, or otherwise break down during the resoling process. Once slipped, it can be very difficult for a cobbler to put that canvas rib back in place, which means the soles can no longer be properly replaced.

    This isn't the same as a handwelted shoe, where the insole is basically the sole's spine. In handwelting, a shoemaker cuts a leather holdfast into the insole, on which the uppers and welt are then attached. This basically locks and seals everything into place. The outsole is then attached to the welt, which secures it to the uppers and provides a much more durable shoe than Goodyear welting (hand-executed or otherwise).

    Goodyear welting was an industrial compromise to traditional, handwelted shoes because it made the shoes cheaper and easier to produce. So, again, you get a lower price (well, traditionally anyway).

    The problem is that people who buy into this "handsewn Goodyear welt thing" just assume that "hand executed" means better, or that it means handwelting, without thinking through the different details of how shoes are made. Handwelting isn't really done for non-traditional, non-CM shoes anyway, so it's rarely talked about. But you can get handwelted shoes for pretty damn cheap. Even Meermin has handwelted shoes for like $300-400. Vass is like $500-600. Enzo Bonafe is also about $600-700. (Rough prices all around, but all much lower than Visvim). It's harder to find someone making handwelted shoes these days than Goodyear welted, but it's not like they're unknown factories or some rare lost art.

    If you're just doing the Goodyear welting process by hand, but still using that canvas rib inside the shoe, it's the same as machine-made Goodyear welting. All you're doing is adding the opportunity to film a romantic video and show it across the web for marketing purposes.

    Put another way: you can have a handwelted shoe and get the sole either attached by machine or by hand. Frankly, that part doesn't matter that much; it's how the internal structure was made that matters in terms of durability and craft. From the Visvim video, it looks like they're just attaching the sole by hand, which is again not really meaningful.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017 at 1:26 AM


  4. paddymac

    paddymac Active Member

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    Brands like Vass and Enzo Bonafe does a hand sewn welt like Visvim and im sure other Bespoke shoe makers do too....

    To be honest, hand sewn welt is not better than machine welt- this quote is from Simon from PS( latest article, how fitting)- The functional benefits of this technique is small.
     


  5. Emixam

    Emixam Senior member

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    handsewn welt just looks better imo, i think that is the main purpose for visvim. it looks more irregular and allows for using thicker thread.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017 at 4:09 PM


  6. Emixam

    Emixam Senior member

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    as for the chinese workers shouting and crying at hiroki cutting their shoes, it sounds very possible. i used to carry on garment inspection at factories in china on a weekly basis for nearly 9 years, and you have no idea how aggressive and emotional they can get when you reject their goods. i even met one case where i feared for my life litterally, and we were talking about a crappy and cheap acrylic bed cover, so i can imagine if he really destroyed handmade shoes how mad they could have been.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2017 at 4:12 AM


  7. paddymac

    paddymac Active Member

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    Great insight!

    I would be pissed and emotional if I was one of the workers and my work is being rejected or cut up for now reason!
     


  8. happyvillian

    happyvillian Well-Known Member

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    I imagine this to be the equivalent of Gordon Ramsey tossing a dish I just created into the trash... lol!
     


  9. dieworkwear

    dieworkwear Senior member

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    "Yew fecking twat! Look at it. Look at it! It looks like a dehydrated turkey shat on a severed donkey's dick. WAKE UP FOR GOD'S SAKE!!!!" -Hiroki while slicking up a thousand shoes.
     


  10. Chaconne

    Chaconne Senior member

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  11. penanceroyaltea

    penanceroyaltea Senior member

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    @dieworkwear dude you've gotta show some mercy man.. u gonna plunge some vis fans into an existential crisis the rate you're going.
     


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