wasmisterfu
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I had a pair of Tom, Dick and Harry from the "hand crafted world of AE" era. Nice enough shoes. Unfortunately the cobbler I took them to seriously botched the repair job, ruined them. Lesson learned, never going back there. Fortunately there are three or four other cobblers around hereThis is an odd pair. I thought that the Allen Edmonds "Tom, Dick and Harry" model was a throwback from the 1960s...maybe as late as the 1970s. But this pair is clearly MUCH newer than that. With the model numbers starting with a 0, I'll assume these were a store special or custom order. Any other thoughts? (And even I can't squeeze into a AAA width shoe, so it won't ship.)
Vintage Allen Edmonds Men's "Tom, Dick, and Harry" Dress Shoes Size 13 AAA | eBay
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So there’s a way to do a non-channeled bottom stitch and not have it look like ass, but it requires a bit of care, which there was, sadly, none applied in this case.Went out into the world and braved the virus to pick up a new phone and pick up a few pairs from the cobbler, including my beloved Florsheim shell PTB with my first JR some conversion.
My excitement faded when I got the shoes home and checked them out closely.
View attachment 1422562 View attachment 1422563
My disappointment knows no bounds.
First world probalems for sure, but one cobbler to strike from the books.
At least the phone is nice.
Thanks for the write up! I was thinking similar when I saw those, but you're much better at these. The bottom was definitely poorly executed, but I didn't fault the cobbler for not cutting a channel.So there’s a way to do a non-channeled bottom stitch and not have it look like ass, but it requires a bit of care, which there was, sadly, none applied in this case.
This brings me to a huge rant: I think channeling the bottom outsole stitch (given its a lock stitch) is freakin stupid.
When doing a super-high SPI outsole stitch, especially if you want it to look very neat on the top, you need to be able to focus on just having the top stitch land evenly, especially at mass-production line speeds. Back in the day, very few American manufactures spent time on channeling the bottom stitch, even for premium brands. Focus was always on how the top portion of the stitch looked:
~1953 Weyenberg’s
~1957 French Shriner & Urner
Even in the 80’s, and up until 1998, AE didn’t channel the bottom stitch, mainly because it allowed for a nice evenly landed, clean high-spi top-stitch:
1987 Dover (with channeled top stitch, not bottom)
1993 MacNeil’s
On those MacNeil’s, on-top, every stitch lands exactly where it’s supposed to with the super-dense fudging, even if it’s a bit wonky on the bottom, because the person operating the outsole stitcher doesn’t have to worry about landing in the bottom channel:
But the day AE started with the damn channeled crap on the bottom, is the day the SPI dropped and the top portion of the stitch gets occasionally wonky, because at production line speed, it’s hard to get both top and bottom straight and even (so they dropped fudging altogether, shortly thereafter):
2000 Shelton’s - you can the stitch isn’t landing evenly in the fudging - a problem that started the day they did the bottom channel. But hey, it’s nice and even on the bottom (where I couldn’t care less - and the SPI has suffered):
Now, is it possibly to do both? Sure, if it’s a slow day or the shoes are a special pair that the person operating the outsole stitcher spends some extra time on (or if you’re Florsheim in their prime, and simply had more outsole stitching stations, running slower - which is my theory on how they did both well). These circa 2013-14 AE Strawfut’s were sent through slowly, and it shows - very high SPI, even on top and bottom:
As you can see, compared to the Shelton’s, from 2000, when they were jamming out PC Shelton’s by the buttload (that’s a technical term, BTW), the Strawfut’s are far better executed.
And for that matter, so were my custom ordered 8221 Shelton’s from 2015, more than a 15 years later:
But this isn’t typical; and generally the result is, to get it even on top and bottom with speed, the SPI dropped (along with little details like / wheeling, fudging and top-channels, etc.).
This completes this OCD rant.
Damn. That’s knowledge. I looked at my vintage AEs and, I’ll be dammed (2nd time I’ve used a variant of that word in a Sunday post before church...), there’s not channel. The tight and precise welt stitching is one of the features I love about vintage AE. Doesn’t the channel slow the wear on the stitching from? I always assumed that’s what the channel was for. Steve from Bedo’s has critiqued AE for the shallow channel on their contemporary shoes. He even told the execs when he toured the WI factory.So there’s a way to do a non-channeled bottom stitch and not have it look like ass, but it requires a bit of care, which there was, sadly, none applied in this case.
This brings me to a huge rant: I think channeling the bottom outsole stitch (given its a lock stitch) is freakin stupid.
When doing a super-high SPI outsole stitch, especially if you want it to look very neat on the top, you need to be able to focus on just having the top stitch land evenly, especially at mass-production line speeds. Back in the day, very few American manufactures spent time on channeling the bottom stitch, even for premium brands. Focus was always on how the top portion of the stitch looked:
~1953 Weyenberg’s
~1957 French Shriner & Urner
Even in the 80’s, and up until 1998, AE didn’t channel the bottom stitch, mainly because it allowed for a nice evenly landed, clean high-spi top-stitch:
1987 Dover (with channeled top stitch, not bottom)
1993 MacNeil’s
On those MacNeil’s, on-top, every stitch lands exactly where it’s supposed to with the super-dense fudging, even if it’s a bit wonky on the bottom, because the person operating the outsole stitcher doesn’t have to worry about landing in the bottom channel:
But the day AE started with the damn channeled crap on the bottom, is the day the SPI dropped and the top portion of the stitch gets occasionally wonky, because at production line speed, it’s hard to get both top and bottom straight and even (so they dropped fudging altogether, shortly thereafter):
2000 Shelton’s - you can the stitch isn’t landing evenly in the fudging - a problem that started the day they did the bottom channel. But hey, it’s nice and even on the bottom (where I couldn’t care less - and the SPI has suffered):
Now, is it possibly to do both? Sure, if it’s a slow day or the shoes are a special pair that the person operating the outsole stitcher spends some extra time on (or if you’re Florsheim in their prime, and simply had more outsole stitching stations, running slower - which is my theory on how they did both well). These circa 2013-14 AE Strawfut’s were sent through slowly, and it shows - very high SPI, even on top and bottom:
As you can see, compared to the Shelton’s, from 2000, when they were jamming out PC Shelton’s by the buttload (that’s a technical term, BTW), the Strawfut’s are far better executed.
And for that matter, so were my custom ordered 8221 Shelton’s from 2015, more than a 15 years later:
But this isn’t typical; and generally the result is, to get it even on top and bottom with speed, the SPI dropped (along with little details like / wheeling, fudging and top-channels, etc.).
This completes this OCD rant.
I've found it to not make any difference really on the amount of broken stitches, and no effect on sole separation. But, I don't wear my pairs until I see my socks eitherDamn. That’s knowledge. I looked at my vintage AEs and, I’ll be dammed (2nd time I’ve used a variant of that word in a Sunday post before church...), there’s not channel. The tight and precise welt stitching is one of the features I love about vintage AE. Doesn’t the channel slow the wear on the stitching from? I always assumed that’s what the channel was for. Steve from Bedo’s has critiqued AE for the shallow channel on their contemporary shoes. He even told the execs when he toured the WI factory.
I keep coming across across Cobblers Plus in Denver for some reason. Any experience with them? Or who do you recommend for mail-ins? Thanks
^ What he said.I've found it to not make any difference really on the amount of broken stitches, and no effect on sole separation. But, I don't wear my pairs until I see my socks either
Here are some other US-based cobblers who have very good reputations:I have no experience with Cobblers Plus in Denver.
But their work looks really good.
For a US cobbler that I have used, and recommend, go with Brian Gavigan in Buffalo. His shop is called Sole Man. I have a review of him here on SF.
A little pricier but skilled and detail orientated.
Gene Harstock in St. Paul Minnesota is also good but slow. Hartland Shoe repair.
I keep coming across across Cobblers Plus in Denver for some reason. Any experience with them? Or who do you recommend for mail-ins? Thanks
Very interesting, thanks!Yes, shell has been used for soles. "Only Wolverine have both soles and uppers of Shell Horsehide - and that's not news."
View attachment 1422522
Some of the best in the game in that groupIf you're on Facebook, there is a group called "North American Shoe Rebuilders." It's a group of cobbler and consumers who talk shop.
Log into Facebook
Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.www.facebook.com
You can join and ask questions. @friendlygoz has given some solid recommendations.
You can certainly tell which pair this fellow preferred the least!Not my shoes. A lot of Dacks in exotic skins.
7 Pair Exotic Men's Dress Shoes Size 11 | eBay
The leathers used were Bull Seal, Elephant, and possibly other exotic animals that are no longer used. They have a definite expensive, elegant look to them and are probably unlike any you've seen before.www.ebay.com