Vintage Dress shoe appreciation, tips, maintenance and advice

[sam67]

An interesting pair of seal leather John McHale Custom shoes were listed on Etsy this week. The sock liner in one of the shoes indicates that they were part of the "Caravan Collection". Their styling is identical to a pair of elephant John McHales that I own, so I pulled them out for a closer look. Although the sock-liner is almost entirely worn, sure enough I could make out that they too were part of the caravan! I suspect that they date to the late 60's or 70's, taking advantage of the exotic leather craze and attempting to compete with Dacks, who had a long and successful run with exotics. Unfortunately I cant locate an advertisement for the Caravan Collection, but there must be one out there somewhere.

I wonder what other members there were in the McHale Caravan. One would think that camel would be a must, and if seals are allowed then Alligator and Shark cant be far behind. I had thought that my pair of Elephant McHales must have been a special order but it appears they were part of a production run.


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You come across some stuff! Are you in Canada? (

An interesting pair of seal leather John McHale Custom shoes were listed on Etsy this week. The sock liner in one of the shoes indicates that they were part of the "Caravan Collection". Their styling is identical to a pair of elephant John McHales that I own, so I pulled them out for a closer look. Although the sock-liner is almost entirely worn, sure enough I could make out that they too were part of the caravan! I suspect that they date to the late 60's or 70's, taking advantage of the exotic leather craze and attempting to compete with Dacks, who had a long and successful run with exotics. Unfortunately I cant locate an advertisement for the Caravan Collection, but there must be one out there somewhere.

I wonder what other members there were in the McHale Caravan. One would think that camel would be a must, and if seals are allowed then Alligator and Shark cant be far behind. I had thought that my pair of Elephant McHales must have been a special order but it appears they were part of a production run.


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Dang. Ottawa is the place to be!

 

[friendlygoz]

I'm intrigued by a couple of pairs of C&J on the Bay, and I'm hoping to get input about the quality and fit from any brother(s) who know something about them. The first is the Trafford model. They are listed as 8D UK; 9D US.

VINTAGE | Crockett & Jones "Trafford" UK 8 D US 9 Wing Tip Derby Brogue Pebbled | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for VINTAGE | Crockett & Jones "Trafford" UK 8 D US 9 Wing Tip Derby Brogue Pebbled at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

The second is a pair of C&J for RL Polo:

Vintage Polo Ralph Lauren Made in England C&J Cognac Patina Cap Toe Shoes 9 D NR | eBay

Maker Polo. Heel Height 1. Insole Length 11. Notes lots of wear, cracks. Material Leather.

www.ebay.com

Are these worth considering?

 

[Jiqea]

What would be the description of this color? Mohagany?

I have looked at a lot of McHale adds and they don't make reference to it being a specific shade of brown. I believe one time they call it "Autumnal", which makes sense to me. It is hard to find a perfect match for it but I find the Saphir Cognac 10 works well if applied very lightly. Many times I find these shoes and they have been smeared with darker brown polishes. A quick round of Renomat seems to bring them back to form with out much effort. The leather quality is superb.

 

[hamercha]

You should start with one of the "Bomber" last John McHales. Either the short wing brogue or the cap-toe Bluchers can be found. Here are a handful of mine. View attachment 1419313

Everytime I see see Jiqea's Mchale, I scoured ebay. I bought different kinds of Mchale for Florsheim. For the last one year, I have not find any like this in my size.

Was Mchale ever popular in the US?

 

[jpm1]

A new addition to my 1986 Collection. This is the Allen Edmonds Berwick Longwing Tassel on the 97 last in Polished Cobbler.

The baseball is a foul ball I got from Game 4 of the 1986 World Series. Al Nipper was the pitcher and Lenny Dykstra hit the pitch in the 3rd inning at Fenway Park. Couple notable signatures on there too! Traumatic series for a 9 year old Sox fan but a pretty sweet memento to have all these years later.

 

[Joe Wohkittel]

Since we are talking about seal and elephant (I too own both) how do you feel about vintage exotics? These arrived today and were advertised as anaconda. On inspection they are clearly anteater (aka pangolin). I don't know how to feel about this given the horrible trade in these creatures. An obituary for John Cessnun reads that he was a custom maker in Hot Springs, Arkansas who died at 94 in 2013.

Vintage exotic skins from decades ago don't bother me. I feel like caring for them and wearing them honors the creature in a weird primal way. These seem more recent, which is... somewhat upsetting.

 

[Jiqea]

Everytime I see see Jiqea's Mchale, I scoured ebay. I bought different kinds of Mchale for Florsheim. For the last one year, I have not find any like this in my size.

Was Mchale ever popular in the US?

McHale was one of the few Canadian makers to penetrate the US tariff wall. They were distributed by some of the top retailers in New York, Detroit and Los Angeles. McHale sold some shoes in the US that don't seem to have been marketed in Canada, such as these late 40's or early 50's spades sold at Berke's in Detroit. They are my grail shoe. I fully expect that @mormonopoly will find a pair. When I die I want to be buried in his shoe closet.

 

[CWOyaji]

I'm intrigued by a couple of pairs of C&J on the Bay, and I'm hoping to get input about the quality and fit from any brother(s) who know something about them. The first is the Trafford model. They are listed as 8D UK; 9D US.

VINTAGE | Crockett & Jones "Trafford" UK 8 D US 9 Wing Tip Derby Brogue Pebbled | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for VINTAGE | Crockett & Jones "Trafford" UK 8 D US 9 Wing Tip Derby Brogue Pebbled at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

The second is a pair of C&J for RL Polo:

Vintage Polo Ralph Lauren Made in England C&J Cognac Patina Cap Toe Shoes 9 D NR | eBay

Maker Polo. Heel Height 1. Insole Length 11. Notes lots of wear, cracks. Material Leather.

www.ebay.com

Are these worth considering?

I Have three pairs of C&J, two made for Peal & Co. and a pair of their Harvard shell penny loafers, which are so well made they almost make me feel like I went to Harvard. Quality of all of them is very high and they fit true to size. Other two pairs are single monk strap and captoe oxfords BTW.

 

[Joe Wohkittel]

If we were dealing with production numbers that were even remotely relatable, I’d agree, but during the 40’s, 50’s, 60’s and even 70’s, companies like ISC and Melville (Thom McAn) where producing more shoes in 6 months than Alden, AE, French Shriner & Urner, Edwin Clapp would ever make, or have ever made, combined! The total number of Florsheim Imperials ever made wasn’t a years worth of sales for Thom McAn’s stores, back in the 60’s (when they surpassed ISC to become the largest producer, churning out ~80,000,000 pairs annually). The scale ISC and Melville shoe production and sales was enormous, with each of these companies individually selling about 2.2 pairs of shoes every second of every day.

In contrast, AE production, at its peak a few years ago, was around 400,000 pairs a year; for most of its existence, AE made around 100,000 pairs a year (the old Belgium WI plant only had a capacity of around 150k max). French, Shriner & Urner, when acquired by US Shoe Corp, was producing around 250k pair per year. Mighty Hanover, at their peak (around 1970) produced around 3 million pairs a year. In contrast, just a single Melville plant, the Nashua, NH plant, produced more than 7 million pair per year.

So, when I say the numbers tell the story, I’m talking actual orders of magnitude. There are remarkably few examples of Thom McAn’s out there, relative to such enormous production. The same is true for the vast majority of ISC products - with one exception: Florsheim. Behavior isn’t the primary reason: product quality, and more specifically material quality, almost certainly is the primary reason.

And the proof is in the pudding: I own a pair of NOS 50’s, lower cost City Club’s, and they’re nice looking, high-SPI, externally well executed shoe that, at first glance, looks like a much more expensive shoe. But when you park them next to a Florsheim Imperial (even ones made in the 80’s), or a pair of similar-vintage French Shriner, or a pair of Weyenberg’s, or AE’s of virtually any vintage, it’s obvious that you weren’t getting any of those shoes, which all cost twice as much or more, for half-price.

It’s like the Fermi Paradox, but for shoes: on numbers alone, they should be out there, but they aren’t. I’m pretty sure it’s because all those lower-cost, high-volume ISC and Melville products fell apart and disintegrated long ago.

I had no idea the numbers were so disparate and stand corrected. The evidence certainly does support your conclusions!

 

[stook1]

View attachment 1419384

A new addition to my 1986 Collection. This is the Allen Edmonds Berwick Longwing Tassel on the 97 last in Polished Cobbler.

The baseball is a foul ball I got from Game 4 of the 1986 World Series. Al Nipper was the pitcher and Lenny Dykstra hit the pitch in the 3rd inning at Fenway Park. Couple notable signatures on there too! Traumatic series for a 9 year old Sox fan but a pretty sweet memento to have all these years later.

From a Mets fan --- that is awesome. I have vivid memories of staying up WAY past my bedtime for those games. We're about the same age.

 

[jpm1]

From a Mets fan --- that is awesome. I have vivid memories of staying up WAY past my bedtime for those games. We're about the same age.

Same here! Lots of late nights that October.

 

[stook1]

I'm intrigued by a couple of pairs of C&J on the Bay, and I'm hoping to get input about the quality and fit from any brother(s) who know something about them. The first is the Trafford model. They are listed as 8D UK; 9D US.

VINTAGE | Crockett & Jones "Trafford" UK 8 D US 9 Wing Tip Derby Brogue Pebbled | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for VINTAGE | Crockett & Jones "Trafford" UK 8 D US 9 Wing Tip Derby Brogue Pebbled at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

The second is a pair of C&J for RL Polo:

Vintage Polo Ralph Lauren Made in England C&J Cognac Patina Cap Toe Shoes 9 D NR | eBay

Maker Polo. Heel Height 1. Insole Length 11. Notes lots of wear, cracks. Material Leather.

www.ebay.com

Are these worth considering?

I have several pairs of newer C&Js, all of which are very well made and highly recommended. Of the two that you found, I would pass on the 2nd pair unless very cheap. They've been resoled and look a bit beat to me. The first pair are vintage. I'm not in a position to give any sort of opinion on that pair other than that they look to be in pretty good shape with original soles. The medallion is the same (or very similar) to the one that is used on the pembroke, lindrick, and marlow. I'd much rather have that pair.

 

[Oshare]

I'm intrigued by a couple of pairs of C&J on the Bay, and I'm hoping to get input about the quality and fit from any brother(s) who know something about them. The first is the Trafford model. They are listed as 8D UK; 9D US.

VINTAGE | Crockett & Jones "Trafford" UK 8 D US 9 Wing Tip Derby Brogue Pebbled | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for VINTAGE | Crockett & Jones "Trafford" UK 8 D US 9 Wing Tip Derby Brogue Pebbled at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

The second is a pair of C&J for RL Polo:

Vintage Polo Ralph Lauren Made in England C&J Cognac Patina Cap Toe Shoes 9 D NR | eBay

Maker Polo. Heel Height 1. Insole Length 11. Notes lots of wear, cracks. Material Leather.

www.ebay.com

Are these worth considering?

C&J is a solid shoe maker. I have a pair of brogued cap toe balmorals, and a pair of balmoral boots made by them. Craftsmanship and leather quality are high.

I'm guessing the second pair was already resoled. C&J doesn't use that type of sole or heel lift. Just something to be aware of.

 

[wasmisterfu]

"Higher west of the Rockies." No wonder I don't see them in rural Oregon. That and loggers didn't wear them.

But let me tell you... you could wear the MacGregor as a logger. My beater pair have proven indestructible; they’re on at least they’re third set of mongo-gunboat-soles, they’ve got huge cracks and gouges, they’ve been worn to hell and back for 44 years. I’ve personally worn them at least 120 full days since I got them, all over the world (and NYC). They’re not even aging anymore; it’s like they’ve mutated into some indestructible, immutable leather. It’s almost as if they’re getting meaner and stronger with age... like the Dirty Harry of shoes. They’re extremely badass shoes... you’ll take risks when wearing these shoes... like eating airport sushi.

 

[wasmisterfu]

View attachment 1419384

A new addition to my 1986 Collection. This is the Allen Edmonds Berwick Longwing Tassel on the 97 last in Polished Cobbler.

The baseball is a foul ball I got from Game 4 of the 1986 World Series. Al Nipper was the pitcher and Lenny Dykstra hit the pitch in the 3rd inning at Fenway Park. Couple notable signatures on there too! Traumatic series for a 9 year old Sox fan but a pretty sweet memento to have all these years later.

Whoa... I watched that game on TV!

As for the Berwick, that’s just about the highest quality Polished Cobbler you’re likely to see on any pair of shoes:

These are my similar vintage Berwick’s, via @CWOyaji:

Extreme close-up, excellent bend, super-tight creasing:

According to one of the catalogs, they sourced their PC from England.