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nikolau

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As the rules go, the simpler the shoe, the more formal it is.

For example, these wholecut oxfords are considered to be very formal shoes, suitable for daytime and evening formalwear (morning coat or blacktie, for example):

CpMfben.jpg

(87 AE Dover)

The next level down, on the formality scale, would be plain-toed oxfords:

hYtf6oO.jpg

(Vintage Violation: 2015 AE Carlyle)

Then captoe’s and partially brogues captoe’s:

rIvvIWV.jpg

(88 Florsheim Penfield)

Finally you get to fully brogued captoes and wingtips:

oIcnbv0.jpg

(1995 AE Clifton)
2Jw7sUr.jpg

(80’s Hanover LB Sheppard LWB’s)

A brogued wingtip, especially a blucher, is going to be at the informal end of the dress shoe spectrum (as they’re historically rooted in “country” shoes.

Which brings us to the weird outliers: the PTB and the Saddle Oxford (often just called a saddle shoe). They’re technically plain toed shoes, so they should be considered more formal than their captoe and and wingtip brethren, yet both are considered, historically, to be less than formal shoes. In the case of the saddle, it’s due to its origins as a “sporting” shoe, while the PTB, by nature of being a blucher, was considered fairly informal. Ultimately, they tend to have a similar profiles (for example the AE Shelton and Leeds are built on the same 511 last), and have somewhat fallen into the same category of formality:

IFY5PDF.jpg

(~1958 City Club PTB)
NMUqPRg.jpg

(Vintage Violation: 2011 AE Shelton)

That being said, the Saddle is one of my go to shoe styles that I wear with everything from jeans to 3-piece suits; they’re incredibly versatile. While I’m not a huge PTB fan, I think they fill exactly the same niche: they’re remarkably versatile, crossing the boundary between faux-formality (due to the plain toe) and informality very easily. Certainly more so than say the LWB, which always looks like a bit like an affectation when worn informally - though I wear LWB’s habitually with informal clothing, precisely because they’re an affectation in that context.

I think a key take away here could be that the more decorative detail there is on a pair of shoes, the less appropriate it happens to be for formal wear. For example, a mirror shined black chelsea boot or well polished cap toe oxford without any brogue detailing would be perfectly appropriate for black tie, even in Europe.

All that said, it happens to be a uniquely American thing that one can wear Alden or Florsheim longwings for practically any occasion and with practically any outfit and get away with it (depending on the choice of material). Personally, I like to think it’s part of the zeitgeist of this country that one can wear big clunky shoes for all occasions — just like one can drive a massive truck throughout a lifetime of urban commuting and drive-through-jamba-juice experiences. In a more reasonable world the drive through Jamba Juice would not accommodate an F150. It’s extraordinary, and I imagine longwings are not appropriate office/wedding/funeral wear in any other country. I, for one, am not complaining.
 
Last edited:

kilowatts

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Hi guys:

Not to be pedantic or anything but......
The top of the formal tree would be a court slipper either in silk or patent leather, with a bow or without. I think in the last fifty years or so has court dress not been mandatory when visiting the Queen. Obviously not valid now, though.

kilowatts
 

nikolau

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Hi guys:

Not to be pedantic or anything but......
The top of the formal tree would be a court slipper either in silk or patent leather, with a bow or without. I think in the last fifty years or so has court dress not been mandatory when visiting the Queen. Obviously not valid now, though.

kilowatts

Is that any different from an opera pump?
 

wasmisterfu

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This is a great example of a grossly misleading eBay listing:

CjnmStZ.jpg

Style 8297 (from 1999):
e2EDbpW.jpg

Polished Cobbler, not even remotely Shell Cordovan:
qSzy2gE.jpg

NOS PC/CG can look an awful lot like Shell, and sellers, like this one, use it as a hook to expedite a sale to someone looking for cheap Shell. Not cool, not cool at all.
 

friendlygoz

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E-thrift AE Shell Bradley arrived today ($72 shipped from Poshmark). They are in great shape. They are 9E, not my usual 9D, but they fit ok. I actually think a 8.5E would be perfect. There is a little gap around the heel, but they aren’t slipping. I like that the previous owner (the seller got them from a storage unit; he purchased the contents for a flat fee) put Topys on them.

I’m having a vintage shoe collector mid-life crisis about my shoe size. My 9Ds are feeling a little snug. So I had my foot measured on the Brannock at my local AE store. The salesperson said I was an 8.5E. I’ve always been a 9D. Do feet get wider over time even with no weight change? I sure as hell ain’t going to get rid of 30+ pairs of 9D vintage shoes. I have stretchers so that might help on my calf shoes. Fortunately my shell pairs feel very nice. This could all just be pandemic induced general paranoia about, well, everything.
A3EAB880-C219-4282-8912-637DE92C4B91.jpeg
9A57595F-7663-4683-92D4-9EBD779DB8BC.jpeg
1BB0EAAA-AFA9-4B37-83F4-A18AF3D22921.jpeg
A1C34A24-F77F-4A4D-B6DB-FB86E8B14B23.jpeg
5CF94EBB-3ADC-4C38-AB79-D1978D01F962.jpeg
 

wasmisterfu

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Hi guys:

Not to be pedantic or anything but......
The top of the formal tree would be a court slipper either in silk or patent leather, with a bow or without. I think in the last fifty years or so has court dress not been mandatory when visiting the Queen. Obviously not valid now, though.

kilowatts
They’re still technically at the top (along with its sibling, the opera pump). However, outside of certain London and New York institutions, they’re purely optional.

As for the ever more gauche Windsor (née Haus Sachsen-Coburg und Gotha) family, and their modes of dress, they’re running around wearing beat-up wingtips with morning coat, which is ridiculous:
prince_harry_hole_in_shoe.jpg

If you can’t be bothered to do it right, just don’t do it at all.
 

wasmisterfu

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E-thrift AE Shell Bradley arrived today ($72 shipped from Poshmark). They are in great shape. They are 9E, not my usual 9D, but they fit ok. I actually think a 8.5E would be perfect. There is a little gap around the heel, but they aren’t slipping. I like that the previous owner (the seller got them from a storage unit; he purchased the contents for a flat fee) put Topys on them.

I’m having a vintage shoe collector mid-life crisis about my shoe size. My 9Ds are feeling a little snug. So I had my foot measured on the Brannock at my local AE store. The salesperson said I was an 8.5E. I’ve always been a 9D. Do feet get wider over time even with no weight change? I sure as hell ain’t going to get rid of 30+ pairs of 9D vintage shoes. I have stretchers so that might help on my calf shoes. Fortunately my shell pairs feel very nice. This could all just be pandemic induced general paranoia about, well, everything. View attachment 1397117 View attachment 1397119 View attachment 1397118 View attachment 1397120 View attachment 1397116
Man, those are really nice. When getting pre-owned Shell, that’s how you want them; well maintained, internals in good order, still on their original soles.
 

suitforcourt

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E-thrift AE Shell Bradley arrived today ($72 shipped from Poshmark). They are in great shape. They are 9E, not my usual 9D, but they fit ok. I actually think a 8.5E would be perfect. There is a little gap around the heel, but they aren’t slipping. I like that the previous owner (the seller got them from a storage unit; he purchased the contents for a flat fee) put Topys on them.

I’m having a vintage shoe collector mid-life crisis about my shoe size. My 9Ds are feeling a little snug. So I had my foot measured on the Brannock at my local AE store. The salesperson said I was an 8.5E. I’ve always been a 9D. Do feet get wider over time even with no weight change? I sure as hell ain’t going to get rid of 30+ pairs of 9D vintage shoes. I have stretchers so that might help on my calf shoes. Fortunately my shell pairs feel very nice. This could all just be pandemic induced general paranoia about, well, everything. View attachment 1397117 View attachment 1397119 View attachment 1397118 View attachment 1397120 View attachment 1397116

A lot of guys in the Facebook AE group say their feet get flatter and wider with age.
 

madhat

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E-thrift AE Shell Bradley arrived today ($72 shipped from Poshmark). They are in great shape. They are 9E, not my usual 9D, but they fit ok. I actually think a 8.5E would be perfect. There is a little gap around the heel, but they aren’t slipping. I like that the previous owner (the seller got them from a storage unit; he purchased the contents for a flat fee) put Topys on them.

I’m having a vintage shoe collector mid-life crisis about my shoe size. My 9Ds are feeling a little snug. So I had my foot measured on the Brannock at my local AE store. The salesperson said I was an 8.5E. I’ve always been a 9D. Do feet get wider over time even with no weight change? I sure as hell ain’t going to get rid of 30+ pairs of 9D vintage shoes. I have stretchers so that might help on my calf shoes. Fortunately my shell pairs feel very nice. This could all just be pandemic induced general paranoia about, well, everything. View attachment 1397117 View attachment 1397119 View attachment 1397118 View attachment 1397120 View attachment 1397116
A lot of guys in the Facebook AE group say their feet get flatter and wider with age.
This is definitely a thing, but I wonder about the shortening of length. I'd expect it to be longer not shorter.
Could this be a case of lock down induced weight gain or increased sedentary habits? Feet could be used to not being in (tighter fitting) dress shoes and now he's noticing a difference?
 

smfdoc

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madhat

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Such a great shoe, sock, slack combo. I hated that those shoes did not fit me, but love that they look so great on you. That is the way those shoes deserve to be worn.
Thanks! Definitely not an every day shoe, but I wanted to wear a suit today.
 

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