• We would like to welcome Pete and Harry as an official Affiliate Vendor. Pete and Harry, co-founded by Erik (EFV) one of our long time members and friends, offers a wide variety of products, clothes, watches and accessories, antique, vintage, “pre-loved” and new - all at unparalleled prices. Please visit their new thread and give them a warm welcome.

  • STYLE. COMMUNITY. GREAT CLOTHING.

    Bored of counting likes on social networks? At Styleforum, you’ll find rousing discussions that go beyond strings of emojis.

    Click Here to join Styleforum's thousands of style enthusiasts today!

wasmisterfu

Distinguished Member
Joined
May 11, 2018
Messages
4,924
Reaction score
14,486
That’s a great watch. 5 mins off. Wow. Pay 20-30 bucks and get it regulated or 100 more than that to get it serviced.
So nobody who knows what they are doing is going to do a proper timing adjustment for 20-30 dollars, and proper servicing costs a lot more than 100 bucks. The costs of doing it right is one of the reasons I taught myself how to do this work, got the equipment, including balancing anvils, staking sets, billions of tweezer sets, weird steampunk-looking magnification headsets, different oils and applicators for different parts of the movement gear-train, etc.. By the time I had done 3 of my watches, I was saving real money.

To do a full servicing correctly, assuming no jewels need replacement/pressing, means complete disassembly (and this is the only way to do it correctly), cleaning in the sonic cleaner, additional manual cleaning of some parts, oiling the movement from low-friction/high-frequency side (escapement, etc.) through to the low-speed/high-friction (input-power) side of the train, using the appropriate oils for each (I use four discrete types of lubrication). This process, through reassembly, is a minimum of 3-4 contiguous hours, and that's assuming everything goes super smoothly and the movement isn't something with mongo chronograph complications. That's JUST to clean it.

Timing and proper positional adjustments (making sure it keeps time within spec, across different positions, such as face up, face down, Top up, top down, etc.) can take a whole day or more, especially when you uncover latent problems, like an unevenly worn cap jewel or balance staff that causes huge positional timing shifts. In that situation, one often has to disassemble the escapement and spend considerable time sorting out issues (usually caused by lack of regular service), such as the horrible process of re-staffing a balance.

So what are some obvious things that cause a watch to run fast? Well, very often (especially on older watches), the balance hair-spring has become magnetized. This can usually be sorted out with a demagnetizer in about 10 seconds. This is because one or more of the hairspring coils is pulling or fully magnetized to another coil, causing the balance oscillation to be significantly truncated, leading to an increase in frequency. Another cause is lack of viscosity from lubrication. Another can be a mismatched mainspring, driving too much power into the gear train (I've seen this quite a bit, where an overpowered spring was used). Worst case, an obstruction or tolerance problem (usually from a hard hit) can truncate the movement of the balance, causing it to run fast. Finally, for very old watches, the balance might simply need manual adjustment (older, high quality movements, have adjustable balance screws, because things just drift over time).

The actual process of dynamic timing can be seriously maddening. Often you'll get something sorted in a couple of positions, only to have timing come undone when adjusting the final position. I generally only time to 4 or 5 positions, but good watchmakers time to 6 and temperature - I don't have the equipment or know-how for temperature adjustments. This why proper comprehensive servicing costs so much money: it's a metric-crap-ton of work.

Just like cobblers, there is Steve from Bedo's, and there is the guy who glues stuff on top of old soles. There is simply no way you can properly service a watch for a 100 bucks (any more than you can get Steve's work for 100 bucks). If you got a watch timed for 20 bucks, they just ran it through a demagnetizer and fiddled with the regulator (and they got lucky - the regulator is only good for a +/- 1-2 minutes per day max, depending on movement). If you got it "serviced" for 100 bucks, they did a quick and dirty movement rinse and dumped some oil where they could reach (which is exactly what I caught a well known shop in NYC doing). That kind of servicing is actually worse than no servicing, as it leaves dirt in the pivots, removes remaining oils from hard to reach places. This why so many watches croak not long after that kind of treatment.

So what am I advocating? Either pay the bucks to get it done right, if it's a worthy watch, or learn how to do it yourself, which I highly recommend. It's a very rewarding hobby and, while there's a fair amount of stuff required, it's not like becoming a cobbler, which needs huge room filling machines. Also, watches are machines, which makes them more deterministic (they either work right or they don't), doing what Steve does is more art than mechanics, so it's a lot harder to replicate what Steve does.

</dismount_high_horse>
 

wasmisterfu

Distinguished Member
Joined
May 11, 2018
Messages
4,924
Reaction score
14,486
I don't think so. We'll see... These were relatively inexpensive so I'm not gonna stress it but i'm not sure what to make of the model and it's a bit of a shot in the dark (pun intended) on the condition.

View attachment 1623696
Wow. Scratch that idea. I'm going with like your MTO idea or something. Freakin AE, making me look the fool all this week, with their weird-ass one-offs and phantom models. I'm telling you, this is all very damaging to my huge, incredibly fragile ego.

 

Quantum17

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2020
Messages
361
Reaction score
1,516
So nobody who knows what they are doing is going to do a proper timing adjustment for 20-30 dollars, and proper servicing costs a lot more than 100 bucks. The costs of doing it right is one of the reasons I taught myself how to do this work, got the equipment, including balancing anvils, staking sets, billions of tweezer sets, weird steampunk-looking magnification headsets, different oils and applicators for different parts of the movement gear-train, etc.. By the time I had done 3 of my watches, I was saving real money.

To do a full servicing correctly, assuming no jewels need replacement/pressing, means complete disassembly (and this is the only way to do it correctly), cleaning in the sonic cleaner, additional manual cleaning of some parts, oiling the movement from low-friction/high-frequency side (escapement, etc.) through to the low-speed/high-friction (input-power) side of the train, using the appropriate oils for each (I use four discrete types of lubrication). This process, through reassembly, is a minimum of 3-4 contiguous hours, and that's assuming everything goes super smoothly and the movement isn't something with mongo chronograph complications. That's JUST to clean it.

Timing and proper positional adjustments (making sure it keeps time within spec, across different positions, such as face up, face down, Top up, top down, etc.) can take a whole day or more, especially when you uncover latent problems, like an unevenly worn cap jewel or balance staff that causes huge positional timing shifts. In that situation, one often has to disassemble the escapement and spend considerable time sorting out issues (usually caused by lack of regular service), such as the horrible process of re-staffing a balance.

So what are some obvious things that cause a watch to run fast? Well, very often (especially on older watches), the balance hair-spring has become magnetized. This can usually be sorted out with a demagnetizer in about 10 seconds. This is because one or more of the hairspring coils is pulling or fully magnetized to another coil, causing the balance oscillation to be significantly truncated, leading to an increase in frequency. Another cause is lack of viscosity from lubrication. Another can be a mismatched mainspring, driving too much power into the gear train (I've seen this quite a bit, where an overpowered spring was used). Worst case, an obstruction or tolerance problem (usually from a hard hit) can truncate the movement of the balance, causing it to run fast. Finally, for very old watches, the balance might simply need manual adjustment (older, high quality movements, have adjustable balance screws, because things just drift over time).

The actual process of dynamic timing can be seriously maddening. Often you'll get something sorted in a couple of positions, only to have timing come undone when adjusting the final position. I generally only time to 4 or 5 positions, but good watchmakers time to 6 and temperature - I don't have the equipment or know-how for temperature adjustments. This why proper comprehensive servicing costs so much money: it's a metric-crap-ton of work.

Just like cobblers, there is Steve from Bedo's, and there is the guy who glues stuff on top of old soles. There is simply no way you can properly service a watch for a 100 bucks (any more than you can get Steve's work for 100 bucks). If you got a watch timed for 20 bucks, they just ran it through a demagnetizer and fiddled with the regulator (and they got lucky - the regulator is only good for a +/- 1-2 minutes per day max, depending on movement). If you got it "serviced" for 100 bucks, they did a quick and dirty movement rinse and dumped some oil where they could reach (which is exactly what I caught a well known shop in NYC doing). That kind of servicing is actually worse than no servicing, as it leaves dirt in the pivots, removes remaining oils from hard to reach places. This why so many watches croak not long after that kind of treatment.

So what am I advocating? Either pay the bucks to get it done right, if it's a worthy watch, or learn how to do it yourself, which I highly recommend. It's a very rewarding hobby and, while there's a fair amount of stuff required, it's not like becoming a cobbler, which needs huge room filling machines. Also, watches are machines, which makes them more deterministic (they either work right or they don't), doing what Steve does is more art than mechanics, so it's a lot harder to replicate what Steve does.

</dismount_high_horse>
Very eloquently said. I can’t agree more on watch service. Steve has mad skills. When listening to Jimmy Page, we enjoy the music so much that sometimes forget to appreciate how much sweat and calluses were invested. Steve and many other well-known cobblers absolutely deserve their worth. However, I sometimes see people recraft 2020 AE for no particular reason and can’t help feeling wasteful. But then it keeps business running.
@suitforcourt does need to service your watch at some point. I wish I inherited anything that cool… well, aside from my charming good look.
 

friendlygoz

Distinguished Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Messages
2,126
Reaction score
9,859
So nobody who knows what they are doing is going to do a proper timing adjustment for 20-30 dollars, and proper servicing costs a lot more than 100 bucks. The costs of doing it right is one of the reasons I taught myself how to do this work, got the equipment, including balancing anvils, staking sets, billions of tweezer sets, weird steampunk-looking magnification headsets, different oils and applicators for different parts of the movement gear-train, etc.. By the time I had done 3 of my watches, I was saving real money.

To do a full servicing correctly, assuming no jewels need replacement/pressing, means complete disassembly (and this is the only way to do it correctly), cleaning in the sonic cleaner, additional manual cleaning of some parts, oiling the movement from low-friction/high-frequency side (escapement, etc.) through to the low-speed/high-friction (input-power) side of the train, using the appropriate oils for each (I use four discrete types of lubrication). This process, through reassembly, is a minimum of 3-4 contiguous hours, and that's assuming everything goes super smoothly and the movement isn't something with mongo chronograph complications. That's JUST to clean it.

Timing and proper positional adjustments (making sure it keeps time within spec, across different positions, such as face up, face down, Top up, top down, etc.) can take a whole day or more, especially when you uncover latent problems, like an unevenly worn cap jewel or balance staff that causes huge positional timing shifts. In that situation, one often has to disassemble the escapement and spend considerable time sorting out issues (usually caused by lack of regular service), such as the horrible process of re-staffing a balance.

So what are some obvious things that cause a watch to run fast? Well, very often (especially on older watches), the balance hair-spring has become magnetized. This can usually be sorted out with a demagnetizer in about 10 seconds. This is because one or more of the hairspring coils is pulling or fully magnetized to another coil, causing the balance oscillation to be significantly truncated, leading to an increase in frequency. Another cause is lack of viscosity from lubrication. Another can be a mismatched mainspring, driving too much power into the gear train (I've seen this quite a bit, where an overpowered spring was used). Worst case, an obstruction or tolerance problem (usually from a hard hit) can truncate the movement of the balance, causing it to run fast. Finally, for very old watches, the balance might simply need manual adjustment (older, high quality movements, have adjustable balance screws, because things just drift over time).

The actual process of dynamic timing can be seriously maddening. Often you'll get something sorted in a couple of positions, only to have timing come undone when adjusting the final position. I generally only time to 4 or 5 positions, but good watchmakers time to 6 and temperature - I don't have the equipment or know-how for temperature adjustments. This why proper comprehensive servicing costs so much money: it's a metric-crap-ton of work.

Just like cobblers, there is Steve from Bedo's, and there is the guy who glues stuff on top of old soles. There is simply no way you can properly service a watch for a 100 bucks (any more than you can get Steve's work for 100 bucks). If you got a watch timed for 20 bucks, they just ran it through a demagnetizer and fiddled with the regulator (and they got lucky - the regulator is only good for a +/- 1-2 minutes per day max, depending on movement). If you got it "serviced" for 100 bucks, they did a quick and dirty movement rinse and dumped some oil where they could reach (which is exactly what I caught a well known shop in NYC doing). That kind of servicing is actually worse than no servicing, as it leaves dirt in the pivots, removes remaining oils from hard to reach places. This why so many watches croak not long after that kind of treatment.

So what am I advocating? Either pay the bucks to get it done right, if it's a worthy watch, or learn how to do it yourself, which I highly recommend. It's a very rewarding hobby and, while there's a fair amount of stuff required, it's not like becoming a cobbler, which needs huge room filling machines. Also, watches are machines, which makes them more deterministic (they either work right or they don't), doing what Steve does is more art than mechanics, so it's a lot harder to replicate what Steve does.

</dismount_high_horse>
Man, did I step in it. And @wasmisterfu cleaned that gunk off my shoes (or something like that). I had my grandfather's vintage Rado serviced in the Bay Area, by a real watchmaker at a very reputable place, and I think it set me back $195. The Bay Area is one of the most expensive places in the world. I was adjusting for COL and the USD to CAD exchange. At any rate, listen to the dude who has done the work, and not the guy who once paid someone to do the work...
 

Quantum17

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2020
Messages
361
Reaction score
1,516
A couple months ago, @mormonopoly came across a wonderful pair of Florsheim, the Royal Imperial Tudor dated FG 1966. In 1966, the company inaugurated the Royal Imperial line with 4 models: Stratford, Concord, Crown and Tudor. The first two were available in brown and black while the latter only in black. They were the best that were offered by Florsheim in that short period between 1966 and 1973/1974. The design stands out with no seams at the heel or throat. The heels surprisingly still have the original rubber portion intact. Maybe because it’s a more formal design, there’s not much wear. The condition is impeccable. Nothing but love. Thank you, kind sir!

Check out his Etsy shop
https://etsy.me/2EjBPsn

CF0051E3-9E2F-4CF9-85B4-3E9C8456F289.jpeg
B3DDACAD-B3EC-4C9E-9D35-9EAC7AF5639C.jpeg
85AE3AAD-F3ED-4457-AFE4-5A75D6D0B9EE.jpeg
01578C5D-2AA3-41B7-83CD-437E46C922E8.jpeg
DD0BAC03-8781-4499-88D0-42E8C9A1042F.jpeg
 

friendlygoz

Distinguished Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Messages
2,126
Reaction score
9,859
A couple months ago, @mormonopoly came across a wonderful pair of Florsheim, the Royal Imperial Tudor dated FG 1966. In 1966, the company inaugurated the Royal Imperial line with 4 models: Stratford, Concord, Crown and Tudor. The first two were available in brown and black while the latter only in black. They were the best that were offered by Florsheim in that short period between 1966 and 1973/1974. The design stands out with no seams at the heel or throat. The heels surprisingly still have the original rubber portion intact. Maybe because it’s a more formal design, there’s not much wear. The condition is impeccable. Nothing but love. Thank you, kind sir!

Check out his Etsy shop
https://etsy.me/2EjBPsn

View attachment 1623775View attachment 1623776View attachment 1623777View attachment 1623778View attachment 1623779
Those are fantastic. I had no idea @mormonopoly had his own vintage clothing shop. Very cool.
 

CWOyaji

Distinguished Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2016
Messages
3,077
Reaction score
20,816
J&M shell Aristocrafts are in protective custody, looking better than the description and $25 price led me to expect. Minor grit and no cracks, and I really like the color variation on these. Cleanup pics to follow.
IMG_6112.JPG

F2BEF4AC-FCE4-4A76-8EFE-734F94CAE6CC_4_5005_c.jpeg
 
Last edited:

wasmisterfu

Distinguished Member
Joined
May 11, 2018
Messages
4,924
Reaction score
14,486
Man, did I step in it. And @wasmisterfu cleaned that gunk off my shoes (or something like that). I had my grandfather's vintage Rado serviced in the Bay Area, by a real watchmaker at a very reputable place, and I think it set me back $195. The Bay Area is one of the most expensive places in the world. I was adjusting for COL and the USD to CAD exchange. At any rate, listen to the dude who has done the work, and not the guy who once paid someone to do the work...
Nah man, you didn't step in it, I just have a bit of crusade going on around the advent of really crummy battery-swapper "watch makers" who do more damage than good. Knowing (because I do it) how it's done correctly, and the work involved, means I know generally what the hours and input costs are.

As an aside, 200 bucks is a great deal. There are (or were, a decade ago) a few good places in NYC that would charge something like that for a cleaning. But, if anything was found to be seriously wrong (and if serious adjustments were needed), the cost would skyrocket. Today, the places that do it right want double that, or more, for cleaning and servicing. I learned the hard way, when a favorite watch of mine (a pre-war Longines) developed a serious problem with losing time, just how many thousands of dollars one could spend with a watch maker. God help you if your affinity is for antique watches (stuff at or past the century mark), because they tend to need more work (fully serviced and maintained properly, they can be as accurate and reliable as their modern counterparts).

The problem with the watch making businesses, is it's very hard to tell who is doing it well, and who isn't. It's not like cobblers, where crummy work is plainly obvious (another reason why I do it myself now).
 

kilowatts

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Messages
891
Reaction score
2,587
A couple months ago, @mormonopoly came across a wonderful pair of Florsheim, the Royal Imperial Tudor dated FG 1966. In 1966, the company inaugurated the Royal Imperial line with 4 models: Stratford, Concord, Crown and Tudor. The first two were available in brown and black while the latter only in black. They were the best that were offered by Florsheim in that short period between 1966 and 1973/1974. The design stands out with no seams at the heel or throat. The heels surprisingly still have the original rubber portion intact. Maybe because it’s a more formal design, there’s not much wear. The condition is impeccable. Nothing but love. Thank you, kind sir!

Check out his Etsy shop
https://etsy.me/2EjBPsn

View attachment 1623775View attachment 1623776View attachment 1623777View attachment 1623778View attachment 1623779
Wow!

Good job those shoe trees are labeled. Easy to get confused, eh?
kilowatts
 

friendlygoz

Distinguished Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Messages
2,126
Reaction score
9,859
Nah man, you didn't step in it, I just have a bit of crusade going on around the advent of really crummy battery-swapper "watch makers" who do more damage than good. Knowing (because I do it) how it's done correctly, and the work involved, means I know generally what the hours and input costs are.

As an aside, 200 bucks is a great deal. There are (or were, a decade ago) a few good places in NYC that would charge something like that for a cleaning. But, if anything was found to be seriously wrong (and if serious adjustments were needed), the cost would skyrocket. Today, the places that do it right want double that, or more, for cleaning and servicing. I learned the hard way, when a favorite watch of mine (a pre-war Longines) developed a serious problem with losing time, just how many thousands of dollars one could spend with a watch maker. God help you if your affinity is for antique watches (stuff at or past the century mark), because they tend to need more work (fully serviced and maintained properly, they can be as accurate and reliable as their modern counterparts).

The problem with the watch making businesses, is it's very hard to tell who is doing it well, and who isn't. It's not like cobblers, where crummy work is plainly obvious (another reason why I do it myself now).
Wow. I didn’t realize I got such a good deal. These folks don’t do the servicing. They send it to a certified watchmaker who serviced the watch and then kept in in his possession for a week to monitor the accuracy. I took that as a good sign. It’s a Rado Diastar (the one with a tungsten case). It’s been running well ever since. I’ve inherited two vintage watches and about to inherit a third (I don’t recall the brand because I saw it before I knew jack about watches. Now I now a hair more than jack).

✊ for taking on the task of servicing your own watch. Wow.
 

wasmisterfu

Distinguished Member
Joined
May 11, 2018
Messages
4,924
Reaction score
14,486
A couple months ago, @mormonopoly came across a wonderful pair of Florsheim, the Royal Imperial Tudor dated FG 1966. In 1966, the company inaugurated the Royal Imperial line with 4 models: Stratford, Concord, Crown and Tudor. The first two were available in brown and black while the latter only in black. They were the best that were offered by Florsheim in that short period between 1966 and 1973/1974. The design stands out with no seams at the heel or throat. The heels surprisingly still have the original rubber portion intact. Maybe because it’s a more formal design, there’s not much wear. The condition is impeccable. Nothing but love. Thank you, kind sir!

Check out his Etsy shop
https://etsy.me/2EjBPsn

View attachment 1623775View attachment 1623776View attachment 1623777View attachment 1623778View attachment 1623779
Damn... those are beautiful.
 

smfdoc

Stylish Dinosaur
Joined
May 25, 2015
Messages
10,138
Reaction score
62,156
@suitforcourt , is adding 8 pairs to my collection, in a single month, excessive?
Not excessive at all. A good farmer knows that a quiet growing season is followed by an intense harvest. I’m sure I read that on a fortune cookie long ago.
 

Styleforum is proudly sponsored by

Featured Sponsor

How often do you get a haircut?

  • Every 2 weeks

  • Every 3 weeks

  • Once a month

  • Every 6 weeks or longer


Results are only viewable after voting.

Related Threads

Forum statistics

Threads
464,105
Messages
10,024,691
Members
209,363
Latest member
weppa
Top