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Nealjpage

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vestbash

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What is your evaluation on this pair and price? I'm trying to get a feel for the market. My biggest concern is that the cork in these (any) second hand shoes is going to be compressed thus requiring a resole but then there go your soles and heels. I appreciate your comments.
They amount of wear on these shoes in my estimation shouldn't make a resole necessary, but a photo of the insole should tell you for sure. Provided these shoes have their original soles, and the uppers don't have any damage, the next major thing to check is the bindings, which don't look like they've cracked. That's generally a pretty good sign that their storage conditions were not terrible. Pretty nice pair in my opinion.
 

sam67

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They amount of wear on these shoes in my estimation shouldn't make a resole necessary, but a photo of the insole should tell you for sure. Provided these shoes have their original soles, and the uppers don't have any damage, the next major thing to check is the bindings, which don't look like they've cracked. That's generally a pretty good sign that their storage conditions were not terrible. Pretty nice pair in my opinion.
Does bindings mean stitching? Thanks
 

vestbash

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Does bindings mean stitching? Thanks
No, is it the material, usually leather, but in this case vinyl, from the facings all the way around the foot opening that covers the end grain of the leather upper. Because it is synthetic on many of the florsheim imperials it is highly susceptible to cracking.

The stitching/closing on a pair of shoes is rarely of anything to be evaluated unless you notice that the stitching is damaged or you are looking at a pair of penny loafers, because there is usually stitching that joins the loafer strap to the upper at the instep that holds the strap in place and if it comes undone for some reason then it causes trouble for the strap integrity over time.
 

stook1

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What is your evaluation on this pair and price? I'm trying to get a feel for the market. My biggest concern is that the cork in these (any) second hand shoes is going to be compressed thus requiring a resole but then there go your soles and heels. I appreciate your comments.
These look pretty good to me. I think they are priced a bit high, although it does seem like the price for 93602s has been gradually creeping up in recent months.
 

Joe Wohkittel

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Maybe we should setup a poll? Or collect input on maintenance from those that have not been running into this issue. I've only run into cracked eyelets one time and it was on the very first pair that I bought and my own fault since I didn't know not to try them on prior to conditioning. Would they have torn anyway? I don't know.

Since that time, I've been extremely careful about buying pairs without cracks and I condition with some combination of neatsfoot oil (if particularly dry), bick4, and vsc. I tend to use a bunch of heavy coats of bick4 to the point where the shoes are saturated and dull for a week until the shell gradually normalizes and can be brushed to a normal shine. For pairs that I have put through this type of treatment and maintained, I haven't run into issues so far (knock on wood). Having said that, I have a lot of shoes (not as many as you though) and some of my vintage shell just don't get worn all that often. Whether that is better or worse, I am not sure.
I think this is a great idea. For all the time and effort I've put into caring for vintage shell, I still don't know what works best. I use Bick, but haven't ever been able to tell if it really absorbs or dries on the surface. @friendlygoz and I were just talking about how despite Horween's advice, VSC doesn't seem to absorb that well either. Saphir cream gives it a nice shine, but doesn't seem to help much with softening old shell. Mink oil and neatsfoot oil certainly will, especially if warmed with a hairdryer, but do they soften at the expense of fiber strength? Plenty of folks online (cobblers, leather workers, etc.) don't like either product, but some of their reasons given (e.g. it won't take a shine afterwards) are not consistent with my experience. Glycerin absorbs too, but leaves spots. What's a fellow to do?
 

Nealjpage

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I
These look pretty good to me. I think they are priced a bit high, although it does seem like the price for 93602s has been gradually creeping up in recent months.
Yep. I just sold a pair for $66. They are solid, but honestly I was surprised that they were bid so high. Decent price for the product but that's what happens with auctions.
 

Joe Wohkittel

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Yes, you're right about the Florsheim part. They're just EE taylor.

The leather is not printed/stamped/rolled. The grain structure makes that much evident. The leather could certainly not be seal, but it is not a printed calf for sure.

I've had EE taylor made shoes for Cole Haan in shell cordovan and private label EE taylors for other makers that used the same exact heel base construction from the 1950s or 1960s. I would be very surprised to learn that this shoe dates to the 1970s.
Looks like shrunken calf to me.
 

stook1

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I think this is a great idea. For all the time and effort I've put into caring for vintage shell, I still don't know what works best. I use Bick, but haven't ever been able to tell if it really absorbs or dries on the surface. @friendlygoz and I were just talking about how despite Horween's advice, VSC doesn't seem to absorb that well either. Saphir cream gives it a nice shine, but doesn't seem to help much with softening old shell. Mink oil and neatsfoot oil certainly will, especially if warmed with a hairdryer, but do they soften at the expense of fiber strength? Plenty of folks online (cobblers, leather workers, etc.) don't like either product, but some of their reasons given (e.g. it won't take a shine afterwards) are not consistent with my experience. Glycerin absorbs too, but leaves spots. What's a fellow to do?
I do think these products work. I restored a 60s pair of 93605s that I got in ridiculously/scary dry condition. I alternated between neatsfoot and bick4 on them and it made a dramatic difference in the suppleness of the leather. They went from being brittle to perfectly wearable. I did end up reselling them due to fitment and I will admit that this pair scared me when I did wear them... but they did not crack while under my relatively brief care. I do agree that vsc is perhaps not an ideal conditioner. In fact, I don't even really use it as much of a conditioner. I see it as more of an all in one cleaner, conditioner (light), and polish that I use more for incremental maintenance. As for the shine consideration --- that's a non factor for me since time generally resolves that issue but I can see why it would be problematic for a cobbler.

Oh -- quick edit. Two other thoughts. I am convinced that neatsfoot oil absorbs into shell. It behaves very differently from bick4, which as you said tends to stand on the surface. Having said that, I do also believe bick4 absorbs since I've observed differences in how it seems to absorb on a 1st coat vs say a 3rd coat as well as a differences relative to modern shell.
 

sam67

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I was just reading about pre 1957 dating code on vcleat. Except the date code doesn't match. I guess the "S" is not what I thought. Still cool but not my size.
 

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