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suitforcourt

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I wouldn't buy those shoes either. Strands are readily available and there is nothing special about this pair in my view. The hacked soles would bug me and I'm not sure it's even worth the cost to properly resole them given that one could probably find a pretty mint pair for around $100 without a great deal of effort. ie. less than the cost of even an AE resole. Had they been MY shoes originally, it very well might change the calculus since they'd be molded to my feet but in that case they wouldn't have been hacked in the first place.

By the way, I will admit that I am somewhat curious about whether AE would resole these. I think they might since it's not like the insoles have been stitched through or some really bad hack.
I agree that the pair should be passed over.

I have never sent a pair of shoes to be recrafted by AE. I once sent them pics of a pair I picked up for cheap, and asked if they would recraft. Their position is (was) that any shoe worked on by non AE cobbler, will not be accepted for recraft. Perhaps they are more flexible now, given the economic reality.

Lastly, I will never use a manufacturer rebuild program again. I used Church's, and it was a gong show.
 

suitforcourt

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Random question, but are there any canadian barristers in the room?
View attachment 1398199
OK I'm done for the night!
I saw this pair on ebay. The welt and ribbing need replacing. I would pay maybe $10 given the work required.

More importantly, I have a pair that I got in NOS condition. I have a second pair that needs new soles, and will be used for a future Father's Day craft for the kids.

But thanks for thinking of me. I like to feel loved.
 

wasmisterfu

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I wouldn't buy those shoes either. Strands are readily available and there is nothing special about this pair in my view. The hacked soles would bug me and I'm not sure it's even worth the cost to properly resole them given that one could probably find a pretty mint pair for around $100 without a great deal of effort. ie. less than the cost of even an AE resole. Had they been MY shoes originally, it very well might change the calculus since they'd be molded to my feet but in that case they wouldn't have been hacked in the first place.

By the way, I will admit that I am somewhat curious about whether AE would resole these. I think they might since it's not like the insoles have been stitched through or some really bad hack.
My understanding is that, more often than not, it’s nails that are the big dealbreaker. Meaning, if a cobbler has knocked nails through the insole, into a heel-base, from the inside out (necessitating installation of a heel liner and such), that’s altered the fundamental construction of the shoe, and they won’t touch it. The other big dealbreakers are if the sole or midsole has been stitched through the insole (blake style), or if the sole/midsole has been cemented, in some fashion, directly to the insole.

If they can’t separate the sole and heel stack, cleanly exposing the inside of the shoe, using their standard disassembly process, so they can remove the old cork-filler and old welt, stitch a new welt to the rib, slop in new cork filler goop and outsole stitch a new sole on, then they stop, and you get a credit towards a new pair. Sometimes they’ll evaluate right up front and send the shoes back to you, other times your shoes will get a thumbs-down mid-process.

When you see a non standard sole attachment (e.g. not stitched to the welt), you never know what kind of clownshoe nonsense might lurk inside. AE’s factory recraft isn’t Bedo’s, they won’t problem solve your shoes, so if they present non-standard difficulties mid-recraft, in the garbage they go.
 

wasmisterfu

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I agree that the pair should be passed over.

I have never sent a pair of shoes to be recrafted by AE. I once sent them pics of a pair I picked up for cheap, and asked if they would recraft. Their position is (was) that any shoe worked on by non AE cobbler, will not be accepted for recraft. Perhaps they are more flexible now, given the economic reality.

Lastly, I will never use a manufacturer rebuild program again. I used Church's, and it was a gong show.
First, you gotta cut the Church’s folks some slack. At the factory, they’re probably having trouble figuring out which shoes are new, and which are there for recraft:


As for AE recraft, they will take a shoe that’s been worked on by a third party, so long as it was done correctly. If you ask them in store, they might give you a liability song and dance, but the pair I sent in last year had been resoled and heeled twice by my NY cobbler. They came back exactly as expected.

But like I said, if they can’t get the heel off, or they start sliding that stitch ripper and the sole doesn’t come off as expected, they move on.

In rather noncommittal language, AE states the above in their recraft FAQ:

Basically, if your cobbler has an outsole stitcher, and understands AE’s unitized 360 GYW construction, you’ll be a-okay.

The problem is (especially outside North America and Japan), cobblers don’t always know how to work on AE shoes. Specifically, they don’t understand that heel attachment is anchored only through the outsole, from the bottom up, not top down through the insole.

The strength in AE’s design, is that the upper and insole, with welt attached to the rib, is a single unitized component that attaches to the bottom stack only via the welt. It makes them incredibly tough and durable, because there’s little interaction between the bottom and top stack; the insole acts to unitize the top stack, making it a very strong anchor for the welt, but it isn’t partly, or directly, part of the bottom stack structure.

When taking apart an AE shoe for resoling (or even rewelting) there’s no pulling up heel liners, pulling nails out from the insole (footbed), pulling the sole apart from the upper at the heel (like in a 270 welt). For AE (or a top-notch cobbler) it’s super simple: last in, rip off heel, stitch rip the welt stitch to remove sole, scoop out old cork, remove old welt, stitch new welt to rib, put in new cork, affix and stitch new sole, glue and tack new heel. That’s pretty much it. For a regular cobbler, leave off the welt replacement bit, and it’s the same process.

As an engineer, it’s a very elegant and simplified version of mass-produced welted construction (that leads to, for my feet, the perfect balance between flexibility and structure).

But AE’s have one major flaw, as a result of this construction method: heel separation. It happens to 50 year old examples, it happens to brand new ones. They might stay on for years, but catch a curb at the wrong angle, and there goes your heel.

For a cobbler, doing an emergency fix, who isn’t familiar with AE’s, their first instinct is to correct the flaw by driving nails down through the footbed. I know this because, years ago, a very nice clobber in Dubai proposed to do exactly that before I stopped him and explained that it would be incorrect for my shoes. He then looked up the correct way to reaffix the heel (including the correct nails and heavy duty cement). Had I not talked to the cobbler about the fix, I would have had shoes that wouldn’t be AE recraftable.

(As an aside, other 360 welt shoes are built much the same way, but still tend to anchor the heel base with nails through the insole. Some 360 welt shoes, like old-school Florsheim gunboats, have extra nails all over the place, big metal shanks, and are generally built like tanks.)
 

kilowatts

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Hi Guys:
So here we all are after several weeks of isolation of one kind and another, getting back to what will become the new normal, whatever that may be! Sadly the border is still closed so I can’t pick up my accumulated boxes of used trash I buy online. Included in that are my black cap toe boots which I am looking forward to with great expectations. According to Trudeau, I think he said the border would open June 21st. So I’m looking forward to picking stuff up. Boots, US army sunglasses, safari bag, handbag for Mrs. Watts etc., etc.
Good luck in the coming months.
kilowatts
 

stook1

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This is great discussion about AEs recrafting and leads to a specific question that I have about my only pair of badly hacked shoes; my AE Elgins. Not sure this is really answerable. The unfortunate sob story is that they were in immaculate condition and went in to an established cobbler nearer to me than NYC for a topy and heel top lift. I almost had the cobbler resole them but ultimately decided to topy them since the original soles weren't worn through and he couldnt source the sole that I wanted. So far so good... turns out though that he decided to do roughly a 270 degree stitch over the existing storm welt through the topy to "secure it better". It looks like shit and pisses me off ever time I wear them... and so I now wear them infrequently. He also polished them which almost pisses me off even more because I can't seem to restore the perfect finish I had before.

Anyway... This is a case where an AE recraft is probably more economical since they probably need to be rewelted. The insoles were not messed with. I am 99% sure that they would do the recraft. But on the outside chance that they won't do the resole and chuck them, that would also suck since it will be difficult to find another pair of these (I always keep an eye out for another/better pair).

Edit, as you can see... not getting love anymore. Prob just need to find another pair.

20200531_134728.jpg
 
Last edited:

Nealjpage

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This is great discussion about AEs recrafting and leads to a specific question that I have about my only pair of badly hacked shoes; my AE Elgins. Not sure this is really answerable. The unfortunate sob story is that they were in immaculate condition and went in to an established cobbler nearer to me than NYC for a topy and heel top lift. I almost had the cobbler resole them but ultimately decided to topy them since the original soles weren't worn through and he couldnt source the sole that I wanted. So far so good... turns out though that he decided to do roughly a 270 degree stitch over the existing storm welt through the topy to "secure it better". It looks like shit and pisses me off ever time I wear them... and so I now wear them infrequently. He also polished them which almost pisses me off even more because I can't seem to restore the perfect finish I had before.

Anyway... This is a case where an AE recraft is probably more economical since they probably need to be rewelted. The insoles were not messed with. I am 99% sure that they would do the recraft. But on the outside chance that they won't do the resole and chuck them, that would also suck since it will be difficult to find another pair of these (I always keep an eye out for another/better pair).

Edit, as you can see... not getting love anymore. Prob just need to find another pair.

View attachment 1398453
You can send them to AE with instructions that they inspect them and contact you before they start working on them. But from here they don't look that bad. I would still wear.
 

suitforcourt

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This is great discussion about AEs recrafting and leads to a specific question that I have about my only pair of badly hacked shoes; my AE Elgins. Not sure this is really answerable. The unfortunate sob story is that they were in immaculate condition and went in to an established cobbler nearer to me than NYC for a topy and heel top lift. I almost had the cobbler resole them but ultimately decided to topy them since the original soles weren't worn through and he couldnt source the sole that I wanted. So far so good... turns out though that he decided to do roughly a 270 degree stitch over the existing storm welt through the topy to "secure it better". It looks like shit and pisses me off ever time I wear them... and so I now wear them infrequently. He also polished them which almost pisses me off even more because I can't seem to restore the perfect finish I had before.

Anyway... This is a case where an AE recraft is probably more economical since they probably need to be rewelted. The insoles were not messed with. I am 99% sure that they would do the recraft. But on the outside chance that they won't do the resole and chuck them, that would also suck since it will be difficult to find another pair of these (I always keep an eye out for another/better pair).

Edit, as you can see... not getting love anymore. Prob just need to find another pair.

View attachment 1398453
If they need new welts, this will obviously increase the costs. Try Gene Harstock in St Paul Minnesota. He rebuilt my Hanovers that I wore yesterday. His work is good and prices are not exorbitant.

His store is Hartland Shoe Repair.
 

mormonopoly

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I am finally returning to working in person tomorrow, so it's finally time to start wearing dress shoes again. During quarantine I had some time to take stock of the collection and cull a few pairs. Now that everything is organized, I'll be rotating each pair on a weekly basis. I decided to start with a pair from the deadstock museum portion of my collection. These are Florsheim 31714 "The Laurel" from either 1962 or '72. They're in the 1969 catalog, and I'm leaning towards '72. They will be going on their maiden voyage tomorrow.
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suitforcourt

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I am finally returning to working in person tomorrow, so it's finally time to start wearing dress shoes again. During quarantine I had some time to take stock of the collection and cull a few pairs. Now that everything is organized, I'll be rotating each pair on a weekly basis. I decided to start with a pair from the deadstock museum portion of my collection. These are Florsheim 31714 "The Laurel" from either 1962 or '72. They're in the 1969 catalog, and I'm leaning towards '72. They will be going on their maiden voyage tomorrow.
View attachment 1398627View attachment 1398628View attachment 1398629View attachment 1398630View attachment 1398631
I was never a fan of this style. But this pair is so sleek and stylish. Wow. Now I have to find a pair.
 

wasmisterfu

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I am finally returning to working in person tomorrow, so it's finally time to start wearing dress shoes again. During quarantine I had some time to take stock of the collection and cull a few pairs. Now that everything is organized, I'll be rotating each pair on a weekly basis. I decided to start with a pair from the deadstock museum portion of my collection. These are Florsheim 31714 "The Laurel" from either 1962 or '72. They're in the 1969 catalog, and I'm leaning towards '72. They will be going on their maiden voyage tomorrow.
View attachment 1398627View attachment 1398628View attachment 1398629View attachment 1398630View attachment 1398631
Whenever they were made, they were made very well. I’m gonna go with 72 also. Great looking shoes.
 

JFWR

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Hey gentlemen, can anyone tell me a bit about Taylor Made Imperial cordovan shoes?
 

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