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Video Games

AR_Six

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Okay, apparently we disagree... I will take your opinion on writing for what it appears to be worth judging from the quality of your posts. FYI, the general consensus appears to be that it was badly written, as are all Bethesda games, basically since Daggerfall. I would just like to quote this exchange with three dog that was one of the examples in the NMA review of F3:

Three Dog: I fight the good fight with my voice!
Player: [intelligence] Ah, so you fight the good fight with your voice, eh?
Wow, way to pass an intelligence check there. That is essentially what happens throughout F3. Shitty one-line dialogue that no one thought about when they wrote it. Usually you get the "good guy" option, the "neutral" option and the "evil bastard" option, all of them obvious. Now compare this to F1 and F2. Fifteen years ago.

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breakz

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Yeah, I mean, there's no contest between FO1/FO2 and FO3. I've played enough of all three to notice Bethesda bought the Fallout license, but not the requisite writing skills.
 

JapanAlex01

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Originally Posted by AR_Six
I will take your opinion on writing for what it appears to be worth judging from the quality of your posts. FYI, the general consensus appears to be that it was badly written, as are all Bethesda games, basically since Daggerfall.
Firstly, let's not use stupid, internet bullshitting here—I was quite happy having a nice, interesting conversation with you! Secondly, it's not general consensus—at least, not from what I've heard from the net/people I know. I think you guys are just holding onto this bummed out thing and not really looking at the game—you are too afraid to see differences in the games which is a shame! :/ That's not a cop-out, what I mean is—you are seeing 1 & 2 (which were relatively similar in style) and trying to squeeze 3 into that style which just won't work! 3 is a completely different game— it's in 3D, and there are many different aspects to the game-play, which are different, etc! To be bluff—you're being too 80's! (That's a half-joke, not to be taken seriously!) I know I'm not going to change your mind, you're putting FO3 into the 'modern games < old games' camp which is just lazy!
 

Desi

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Witcher 2 releases tomorrow. Sadly I didn't buy that new video card I was supposed to.
 

AR_Six

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Originally Posted by JapanAlex01
Firstly, let's not use stupid, internet bullshitting here—I was quite happy having a nice, interesting conversation with you!
Oh really.
Originally Posted by JapanAlex
To say Fallout 3 is poorly written/unfunny is just totally doltish
And really, given the way you write I am not surprised that you can't see the deficiencies. I assume this is not your first language. Nothing wrong wtih that, but it is mine, and while these deficiencies may not be obvious to you, they are glaring to me. This also stems partly from being a lit major. I don't expect fantastic scripting out of a video game but there's only so much I'm willing to put up with. F3 was simply beyond the pale.
3 is a completely different game— it's in 3D, and there are many different aspects to the game-play, which are different, etc!
The first one, I've already answered. The fact that it's in 3d has no bearing whatsoever on what I'm complaining about. You could just as easily incorporate good writing and plot elements into a 3d game as an isometric one. Granted, you can't have as many people as you did in the Hub walking around in a 3d game because shit would lag, but you can at least hire real writers to script the things they say properly, create a decent story and develop each important character so that they're not painfully two dimensional. Bethesda did not do this.

As for your second point, that "there are many different aspects to the game-play, which are different, etc.", I probably don't even need to point out that that statement is completely devoid of meaning. Refer to my above point about your posts. I would say it's a fair observation.
I know I'm not going to change your mind, you're putting FO3 into the 'modern games < old games' camp which is just lazy!
No, I'm not doing anything of the sort. This is bullshit. It has nothing to do with what I've just spent a bunch of time explaining, for one thing. For another, this discussion began with me being optimistic about New Vegas recapturing some of the things that made the "old games" great. I don't care if it's new or old, I care if it doesn't suck. Taken on its own, Fallout 3 is an okay game. Compared to its predecessors, it sucks.

The reason a lot of modern games suck in this way, when looked at in the larger context, is that from a marketing perspective, they want to sell them to the 14 year olds who buy Halo. I.e., people who want to shoot things, not read lines on a screen or hear characters talk or have to sit through exposition. They focus on flashy visuals and the development resources are geared towards these things, which necessarily means they are taken away from other things. Ten plus years ago, the visuals were not generally enough to carry a game, and at the time, Final Fantasy 7 was the blockbuster success - leading to the conclusion that people want a story, a game world, and interesting characters, atmosphere (the scoring of the FF's has subsequently spawned international orchestra tours).

The Mass Effect series (note: they're "new games", and what I'm about to say also applies to DAO) does a pretty decent job of exposition, story, introducing you to real and believable characters - some of the things I'm interested in in a game. It makes these people relatable through solid and occasionally excellent voice acting and gives them a script that's good enough to work with. As a result, I don't care so much that the "shooting" part of the game could be better, because it's not why I'm playing. Dreamfall: TLJ was an excellent example of basically no gameplay mechanics (fighting in that game was abysmal), but it was an excellent experience because of the plot and the universe that was created. This sort of focus is extremely uncommon now, because Halo and COD have everyone convinced that mindless FPS is what people want to buy... and F3 is a symptom of that disease. I'm not even sure that's true that that shit sells better, it's just all people have really been given.
 

JapanAlex01

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Interesting opinion, and comment, although I completely disagree (in regards to FO3).

I am English, and what I wrote was perfectly legible.

I used the word 'doltish' quite bluffly.

I also found the characters in FO3 to be quite stiff. I still think it's a good game (good quests, etc.) It's a shame you can't see this.

Mass Effect is a good game too. I wouldn't say that the differences in script writing are, in any major way, better than FO3?
 

jarude

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Fallout 3 would have been better if it wasn't Fallout. The only sequel which changed something as critical as a viewpoint/genre and surpassed the original was... nothing, ever. Look at Blizzard - they canned Starcraft: Ghost, Warcraft Adventures, and bastardized the proposed role-playing strategy system that Warcraft 3 was supposed to be into an RTS with heroes. And you know what? They were all damn good decisions, and thats coming from a company whose track record is virtually impeccable in terms of title quality and success. They distanced WoW from conventional Warcraft enough to make it its own brand and found success with both.

Fallout 3 was fun, but nothing groundbreaking. If it was Fallout 2.5 + Tactics in isometric 3d, it would be much better. Piss on Fallout3 actually, I'm now imagining the natural evolution of OG Fallout and it could have been so much more.
 

brimley

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Originally Posted by Desi
Witcher 2 releases tomorrow. Sadly I didn't buy that new video card I was supposed to.

Thanks for the heads up. First Witcher definitely had flaws but was a hell of a lot of game. Hope they didn't screw it up.
 

Hop

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Soooooo, who else is looking forward to Dark Souls
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TIP: to embed Youtube clips, put only the encoded part of the Youtube URL, e.g. eBGIQ7ZuuiU between the tags. Plus instead of taking the traditional route of charging $70.00+ for the special edition, all you have to do is pre-order the game.
 

macuser3of5

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Originally Posted by Hop
Soooooo, who else is looking forward to Dark Souls
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TIP: to embed Youtube clips, put only the encoded part of the Youtube URL, e.g. eBGIQ7ZuuiU between the tags. Plus instead of taking the traditional route of charging $70.00+ for the special edition, all you have to do is pre-order the game.

I still play Demon's Souls daily, so me.
 

breakz

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Originally Posted by JapanAlex01
I think you guys are just holding onto this bummed out thing and not really looking at the game—you are too afraid to see differences in the games which is a shame! :/
I don't know how to be clearer about this: there are obvious differences between F1/F2 and F3. One big difference is that the writing in F1/F2 is much better than F3. There are differences in gameplay. F3 has a shooting, run-and-gun combat system that was very different from the turn-based systems in F1/F2 (even with VATS). There are also differences in morality: F3 has clear protagonists and antagonists, while the factions in F1/F2 have different goals that are not simply "good" or "evil." Finally, there are differences in writing. This is what AR_Six and I are getting at: the writing in F1/F2 is infinitely better than F3. Characters in the first two games are robust and lively: they hustle slaves and drugs, steal and kill, herd brahmin, organize religious factions, and make cynical jokes about their bleak world. Overall, they feel like real people trying to survive the end of the world. In F3, people either shoot you, sell you stuff, or tell you about the main plot. There are a few side stories, but they're one-dimensional--the dueling superheroes are single-mindedly trying to kill each other, while the pusher in AR's video explains how he developed Jet, defends his testing of Jet on slaves who died, etc.
Originally Posted by Nananine
New Vegas is classic Obsidian Entertainment: making the big ideas really really big (and sometimes hitting home runs) and falling flat on the basic things. And like most Obsidian games, I can forgive the faults, much to my detriment. New Vegas, though, is the real Fallout 3.
This is good. I can forgive dumb basic mistakes as long as they're not tedious. I'll order my copy of New Vegas soon.
 

Pinhas

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So did anyone play LA Noire yet? worth a purchase?
 

eddiemczee

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Originally Posted by Pinhas
So did anyone play LA Noire yet? worth a purchase?

I would also like to know. Also, is it me or does there not seem to be as much publicity for LA Noire as there was for Red Dead?
 

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