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Video Games

Discussion in 'Entertainment, Culture, and Sports' started by Brian SD, Nov 7, 2007.

  1. dusty

    dusty Senior member

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    I couldn't be less excited about MW2
    Same here, I've never liked the play mechanics of COD games. Plus the stark difference in realism between the setting, weapons, etc. and the actual gameplay structure really takes me out of it. It's like NBA Jam but for war.
     


  2. dusty

    dusty Senior member

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    I was looking for 2D Zelda clones the other day and came across Alundra for the PSX. This game is fantastic -- like LttP but with tougher enemies and more challenging puzzles.
     


  3. Toiletduck

    Toiletduck Senior member

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    no body playing borderlands?
     


  4. chobochobo

    chobochobo Rubber Chicken Dubiously Honored Moderator

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    no body playing borderlands?

    It's in my pile. I'll get to it after 'No more heroes', a bit late with that one.
     


  5. chronoaug

    chronoaug Boston Hipster (Dropkick Murphy)

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    I was looking for 2D Zelda clones the other day and came across Alundra for the PSX. This game is fantastic -- like LttP but with tougher enemies and more challenging puzzles.

    every play Crystalis for NES? I think they might have remade it a bit with snes graphics but i'm not sure. Maybe on DS or something. Was a good game and the best zelda clone at the time of NES.

    As far as SNES i really really really recommend Illusion of Gaia. One of the more underrated games i can think of in the genre. Great gameplay, great story (for snes zelda type games), and a nice balance between rpg and adventure play. Definitely check it out.
     


  6. j

    j (stands for Jerk) Admin

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    every play Crystalis for NES? I think they might have remade it a bit with snes graphics but i'm not sure. Maybe on DS or something. Was a good game and the best zelda clone at the time of NES.

    As far as SNES i really really really recommend Illusion of Gaia. One of the more underrated games i can think of in the genre. Great gameplay, great story (for snes zelda type games), and a nice balance between rpg and adventure play. Definitely check it out.

    I loved Illusion of Gaia.
     


  7. breakz

    breakz Senior member

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    There's a certain degree of strategy, but its not nearly as deep as fighting games.

    I didn't even mention fighting games bc, frankly, we can rank game genres by strategy requirements as follows:

    fighters
    ...
    ...
    ...
    MMOs
    top-flight shooters
    everything else

    A great fighter (SC2, VF series, SFII, etc) requires a tremendous amount of skill and strategy. THAT'S a genre where I can't invest my time bc my twitch skills are just too poor. Still, I love watching YouTube vids of these SFII dudes tearing ppl up at Evo.
     


  8. Brian SD

    Brian SD Moderator

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    Yea, there's certainly a high degree of twitch required for fighting games, which is probably why shooters are much more accessible as competitive multiplayer games - the variety of actions you can perform is incredibly limited (point, click, throw grenade), which puts the focus on learning the maps, learning common routes, predicting your opponents, etc.

    My favorite fighting game is Tekken, which is a weird choice as it's not considered as technical as VF or SF, but I like the pressure/mind-reading game and the fact that most characters have about a 75-80% similar array of moves, speeds and abilities.

    That stuff is NEAT, but it isn't really related to the gameplay itself as these are changes you make before matches / during death downtime.

    One of the things I don't like about COD is the amount of slippery-slope that's involved - players who get on huge killstreaks get an advantage which gets them more kills. Makes for fun play (for the dude on the killstreak), but the lack of balance hurts it in long run playability. There's very little variety in how a game can play out. You can play well or play badly, but other than that, the gameplay engine doesn't exactly load you up with different methods of playing.

    I don't dislike FPS's as a genre, I'm just not interested in paying $60 for an incremental update to a series I never really clicked with in the first place. I would be interested if the single player was a significant achievement (for example Bioshock is an FPS and I loved that one), but it's just a six-hour experience that you play for the story, not for any engaging elements of video game design or creativity (a key element for me, over the past few years).

    My point is just that to get to a high rank in COD you need to sink in a lot of hours, after having done that in COD4, I felt almost no sense of accomplishment. I ranked up to 60 in COD4, but I haven't really touched it since, I skipped over WAW and I'll likely skip over MW2 as well. As an example of what I do like, I play Heroes of Newerth on a fairly competitive level, and I feel satisfied with what I've learned about general strategic play through that game.
     


  9. breakz

    breakz Senior member

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    I actually enjoyed Tekken a ton too--found it easier to pick up than SF or VF.

    but it's just a six-hour experience that you play for the story, not for any engaging elements of video game design or creativity (a key element for me, over the past few years).

    It's arguably the contrary: you play the games for the gameplay, not the story. This is a conscious design choice by Infinity Ward, and the games are better for it.

    IW designed these games to emphasize the gameplay. Kojima, for example, designed MGS4 around a plot. The result is a "game" which becomes bad cinema in it's last act.

    For this reason MW and MW2 are like Super Mario Bros or Super Metroid: the plot only exists to drive the gameplay. No one cares about the last metroid or the princess--let's just explore this planet (or friggin run and bop guys on the head)!

    Okay, I'll end my IW love letter now. [​IMG]
     


  10. Lel

    Lel Senior member

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    Y
    That stuff is NEAT, but it isn't really related to the gameplay itself as these are changes you make before matches / during death downtime.

    One of the things I don't like about COD is the amount of slippery-slope that's involved - players who get on huge killstreaks get an advantage which gets them more kills. Makes for fun play (for the dude on the killstreak), but the lack of balance hurts it in long run playability. There's very little variety in how a game can play out. You can play well or play badly, but other than that, the gameplay engine doesn't exactly load you up with different methods of playing.

    I don't dislike FPS's as a genre, I'm just not interested in paying $60 for an incremental update to a series I never really clicked with in the first place. I would be interested if the single player was a significant achievement (for example Bioshock is an FPS and I loved that one), but it's just a six-hour experience that you play for the story, not for any engaging elements of video game design or creativity (a key element for me, over the past few years).

    My point is just that to get to a high rank in COD you need to sink in a lot of hours, after having done that in COD4, I felt almost no sense of accomplishment. I ranked up to 60 in COD4, but I haven't really touched it since, I skipped over WAW and I'll likely skip over MW2 as well. As an example of what I do like, I play Heroes of Newerth on a fairly competitive level, and I feel satisfied with what I've learned about general strategic play through that game.


    I'm not sure I understand your reasoning. You say that classes don't effect gameplay? It completely changes gameplay because instead of starting with a really crappy weapon and having to compete for weapon spawns in the map, you just start with what you want. That's a HUGE improvement in terms of FPS, because then I don't end up in games like Halo where I'm running around with the useless Assault Rifle cause all my allies took the BRs and I keep getting picked off by opponents who also have BRs. Not to mention the combination of perks themselves completely changes how you play different classes, so I could play in 3-4 different "styles" at will. Also, if not being able to change classes mid gameplay is such THE glaring gameplay problem then you should be happy to know that this is a perk that allows you to do just that.

    It's also interesting that you call kill streaks a slippery slope because I just refer them to building up momentum, which allows me to control map positioning better. Yes it IS pretty fun to call in predator missles on people, pilot choppers, launch EMPS, etc. Yes it's a slippery slope on the receiving end of a kill streak but that's a matter of perspective not gameplay(EX: I don't like getting shot because I die, but I like shooting other people to kill them). Of course it's not that simple and that are ways to work around killstreaks to maximize their potential, or downgrade their potential harm. Plus, because it's my playing style, UAVs are one of the most game changing mechanisms of gameplay and have a HUGE role in how I play (I don't understand people who can't use UAVs).

    Also the game now has death streaks that if you're doing bad and die X amount of times they give some kind of boost. Obviously not as good as kill streaks but it would be incredibly dumb to keep rewarding players who die too much don't you think? Plus killstreaks aren't instant "you're fucked 100% of the time" gameplay destroying mechanisms because a lot are avoidable. I'm still surprised by how just plain bad a lot of people are regarding this. IE: Not hopping on a turrent to take down a helicopter, or not getting out of the way when there is an airstrike coming in (seriously, most people I watch tend to just stand around and ignore the GIANT RED PLANES on their UAVs that are heading in their direction).

    The gameplay, and the subtleties of how it is balanced is really something you begin to pick up and discern the more you play and the better you get. Personally I just don't get fighting games. I think it's short sighted to say that FPS are bland because of the lack of buttons pushed or complexity of actions because IMO fighting combos are mind numbingly dumb because it strikes me as just memorization of some incredibly long string of buttons. I'm not saying fighting games as a genre has shallow gameplay, but in short I suck at them so I don't enjoy them too much. I can't get into the strategy that goes behind the comboes, when and how to execute them, and I just plain don't want to sit there and memorize a bunch of strings of button pushes. Anyways my point is, gameplay of MW2 is more than "aiming down the sights and firing". You have to think about what sites you're aiming down, how to fire it (is it single shot, burst, semi-auto?), where all your teammates are on the map, where the opponents are, how many angles you're vulnerable, if the enemy has a UAV, if there's a killstreak currently going on (having to mentally keep track of all the different aircraft in the air), if you're anywhere near a killstreak, watching your back, looking at your radar and being to instantly pinpoint where on the map the enemy is (IE you look, see the dot, aim and shoot exactly where the guy is without ever having to scan for him) etc... for me, I am just always constantly thinking and thinking about strategy, the map position of everyone, even to the point where I need to know exactly what directions my teammates are facing and where they are on the map to determine enemy location.

    I also don't understand what you mean by "you either play really well or really bad" because while I tend to have better games, I have ones where I do not so well and occasionally I have a really shitty one but the score break down of the average game isn't as polarizing as you seem to describe it. Or you description of "no sense of accomplishment" in multiplayer. I felt pretty accomplished leveling up because I actually unlocked weapons and perks and attachments, stuff that effect gameplay or allowed me to tweak my classes. I don't prestige, it's dumb but it's there for those who want and most online FPS offer absolutely nothing to people who play a bit online except for maybe rank or other stuff that doesn't effect gameplay.

    But most of all, I just don't understand your reasoning. It's fine if you don't like the game, or aren't feeling up the hype. But bland? I don't see how, with the complexity of the gameplay, MOdern Warfare 2 can be considered "bland". They expanded almost every core concept in the original game (seriously, there's like 15 different customizeable kill streaks and a billion new attachments per gun). What WaW did was just slap a WWII skin on Modern Warfare, Modern Warfare 2 actually changes a LOT of gameplay aspects.

    I guess I want to know, in your eyes, what makes a non-bland "FPS". And I mean a real FPS, not to sound elitist, but one in where FPS is the predominant aspect and there is a multiplayer option (so not like Fallout 3, or Bioshock, both of which are more adventure/exploration/RPG elements just from a FP view with the possibility of guns). Because honestly, Halo is bland and generic as hell compared to how many options I get out of Modern Warfare 2 and the Gears of War series doesn't approach the complexity either.

    Bottom line though, it's great if it's not your cup of tea but if you enjoyed the multiplayer of Modern Warfare at all then MW2 is worth checking out because they made a lot of BIG changes that really add to gameplay. Anyways, rant done, going to hope on some multiplayer right now cause class was canceled.
     


  11. dopey

    dopey Senior member Dubiously Honored

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    OK. Recommend the best current game available for a mac. I loved RTS games (favorite was probably Total Annihilation).

    Bump. Anyone have some good suggestions?
     


  12. breakz

    breakz Senior member

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    Damn Lel, your post suggests we think about MW/MW2 in the same way. are you on PSN or XBL?
     


  13. Bhowie

    Bhowie Senior member

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    COD gave me a broner. So close to beating campaign on Veteran. This is a ton of game. MUST GET XBOX LIVE BACK! I will pwn all n3wbs.
     


  14. Bhowie

    Bhowie Senior member

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    ..
     


  15. Reggs

    Reggs Senior member

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    no body playing borderlands?

    Me

    I'm going to shelf it for a good 6 months to wait for mods to make it feel like a PC game. I like the concept, and love the art, but the menu and lack of a few controls and visual settings really irritates me.

    Gamespy is the worst problem this game has. Why on earth would any developer want to use gamespy? Everyone hates it. Steamworks should be the new standard for just about everyone.
     


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