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Jerkstore

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Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I'm not sure I understand why Neil felt it was his place to defend JL. Makes me question giving business to S&S going forward...
Respectfully, I don't think this is the best way to go about it. Punishing S&S won't hurt Lofgren by and large and S&S does a lot of good things to help the community. This kind of cancel culture needs to take a step back.
 

jischwar

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I know you weren't necessarily addressing me, but I just wanted to say that I do understand why you feel that way -- even though I don't -- and that I've said all I'm likely to say on this issue on this (or any other) forum in my previous post.
🍻
 

nareichert

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Respectfully, I don't think this is the best way to go about it. Punishing S&S won't hurt Lofgren by and large and S&S does a lot of good things to help the community. This kind of cancel culture needs to take a step back.
I do think business owners should be responsible for who they choose to do business with, especially in Neil's case as he is clearly personal friends with John. You always do research on who you are doing business with and the risks associated with that business. It would have taken any HR person 5 minutes to look at JL's online presence and realize he is xenophobic at best, and racist at worst. Look at the social media accounts he follows, the man is fully engulfed in the right-wing echo chamber. In no way did these comments come out of nowhere.
 

jischwar

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Respectfully, I don't think this is the best way to go about it. Punishing S&S won't hurt Lofgren by and large and S&S does a lot of good things to help the community. This kind of cancel culture needs to take a step back.
I guess I just don't understand how you can outwardly say you want to be involved in activism, give back on Black Friday, etc. and at the same time defend someone whom is outwardly racist. This isn't the first time he's posted remarks disparaging other ethnicities, just the first time he's gotten serious blowback.

S&S is a retailer of Lofgren and therefore has a financial incentive to continue to push his products. The only weapon we have as a consumer is to refuse to purchase their products. If it doesn't hurt the bottom line, businesses won't change...
 

acessmokin

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I guess I just don't understand how you can outwardly say you want to be involved in activism, give back on Black Friday, etc. and at the same time defend someone whom is outwardly racist. This isn't the first time he's posted remarks disparaging other ethnicities, just the first time he's gotten serious blowback.

S&S is a retailer of Lofgren and therefore has a financial incentive to continue to push his products. The only weapon we have as a consumer is to refuse to purchase their products. If it doesn't hurt the bottom line, businesses won't change...

It's almost as if life isn't black and white.
 

Crizzlelovesyou

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I don't really want to get involved in a convo about JL, but as far as Standard and Strange is concerned I wholly believe they are genuinely good people. Neil has offered me tons of boot and fit advice over the past year and is fully aware that I have never bought a single thing from him. We've had quite a few conversations and I've made ridiculous requests, and he has answered all of them in stride. He has even told me not to buy stuff he is selling if the fit may not be exactly right or too similar to stuff I already own. Something that no other stockist has done to date. Plenty have offered fit advice, but he's the only one who has told me to go purchase a product that he isn't selling. I know there is limited overlap here between the GYW reddit, but I'm sure those of you who have seen his comments and posts can vouch for that he makes meaningful contributions to that sub and has never asked for anything in return. At the end of the day he did raise 37k for their black friday promo of giving 100% profits to charity and followed through, and for a small business in a COVID world that's damn impressive. Yeah he could have been harsher on JL, and it probably is the case that his personal relationship with him as well as business relationship came into play. I don't expect perfection (hell that's why I buy Vibergs in the first damn place) but I don't think he should be thrown under the bus for JLs actions. As others have pointed out JL has been this way for a long time, it's unfortunate to the brand the the man behind it holds these views. I don't own any JL and never will, but not because of his political statements, I just don't dig most of his offerings at the price they go for.
 

acessmokin

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Hey you're right. Its almost like they have thousands of dollars of JL inventory on hand. And thousands more in pre-orders. Or like their espoused social stances and statements of concern are simply marketing or opportunities of convenience.

Accusing Standard & Strange of using social stances as marketing and opportunities of convenience is laughable at best.
 

Rymanocerous

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Accusing Standard & Strange of using social stances as marketing and opportunities of convenience is laughable at best.
Good one. Personally, I think personal opinions and politics don't belong in business with a few notable exceptions. That said, when you choose to build your business on a platform of social justice and advocating against all that is wrong in the world you have committed your platform and business to doing that. Now that the JL debacle has landed in his backyard, Neil is suddenly ok with suborning it. It's 100% hypocrisy.

The bullshit with all of this, is that it isn't cancel culture. It wasn't one bad decision, or one remark received poorly. It's a repeatable, clear pattern that has been going on for a while. S&S would have likely remained quiet on the matter, once again, had one of their customers not asked them to speak to the issue. Its not a secret that Niel and JL are personal friends and do significant business together. To think that has no bearing on the situation is naive at best.

Due to their prior vocalization, I find it more reprehensible for an entity like S&S to fail to follow through on their advocacy. It certainly undercuts their prior efforts and is an example that in practice, they don't follow through when they have the opportunity. You might find it laughable, I find it despicable. Suffice to say, I wont be supporting either with my wallet. I have enjoyed seeing your new post history simping for JL. You are certainly free to support whatever entity you choose, but don't try to act like this is all a witch hunt. Just have the integrity to own that you don't actually care and that it wont affect your consumerism.
 

jischwar

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Good one. Personally, I think personal opinions and politics don't belong in business with a few notable exceptions. That said, when you choose to build your business on a platform of social justice and advocating against all that is wrong in the world you have committed your platform and business to doing that. Now that the JL debacle has landed in his backyard, Neil is suddenly ok with suborning it. It's 100% hypocrisy.

The bullshit with all of this, is that it isn't cancel culture. It wasn't one bad decision, or one remark received poorly. It's a repeatable, clear pattern that has been going on for a while. S&S would have likely remained quiet on the matter, once again, had one of their customers not asked them to speak to the issue. Its not a secret that Niel and JL are personal friends and do significant business together. To think that has no bearing on the situation is naive at best.

Due to their prior vocalization, I find it more reprehensible for an entity like S&S to fail to follow through on their advocacy. It certainly undercuts their prior efforts and is an example that in practice, they don't follow through when they have the opportunity. You might find it laughable, I find it despicable. Suffice to say, I wont be supporting either with my wallet. I have enjoyed seeing your new post history simping for JL. You are certainly free to support whatever entity you choose, but don't try to act like this is all a witch hunt. Just have the integrity to own that you don't actually care and that it wont affect your consumerism.
This 💯
 

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