Versace

[LabelKing]

I was looking at the Fall Collection 2001 for Versace on Firstview, and I think it is the best. The topcoats, the suits, and the ties were all amazing. Also the details like the embroidery, and stickpins were very stunning. I think this is the best collection of Donatella Versace's. Comments?

 

[Thracozaag]

Never was much of a Versace fan, but I'll take your word for it. What has really impressed me is this year's RLPL line...very impressive stuff.

 

[ulf]

Versace is Euro trash, plain and simple. Too obvious, too showy. An elevated kind of poor taste.

On the other hand, sometimes more really is more...

 

[Renwick]

Versace is Euro trash, plain and simple. Too obvious, too showy. An elevated kind of poor taste.

On the other hand, sometimes more really is more...

Normally I would agree but this season Versace has some amazing stuff.

 

[LA Guy]

I have conflicted feelings about Versace. Although it doesn't fit into my personal style, the diffusion lines are particularly poorly conceived, and the quality is inconsistent at best, I think that Versace's unabashedly sensual, hedonistic, overt and perhaps most importantly, sexually potent style is a necessary antidote to the gloomy hordes of minimalists (Jil Sander, Calvin, Helmut Lang), modernists (Costume National, Prada) and deconstructionists (Margiela, Schonberger, and, truthfully, Armani), all of whom I'm convinced do their designing after watching a gloomy Swedish movie. Having said that. I've never bought, and will probably never buy a single Versace piece. For glamour, I'll stick to Gucci.

 

[pstoller]

I logged onto Firstview for a peek: the collection didn't work for me. I found it rather "Eurotrash," as Ulf said. There was a time when Gianni Versace designed some pretty nifty stuff, but I felt he and his labels were in decline well before his untimely demise.

In Donatella's defense, I don't think she's made things any worse than Gianni left them. From a marketing standpoint, she's done a great job of keeping the house popular and high-profile, and some of the individual pieces have been better than most people expected. (Hey, I have some cool Versace combat boots.) But, I don't think she has any sort of real vision for her menswear collections from a design standpoint...unless you consider "urban pimp meets Miami Beach" a "vision."

 

[pstoller]

Versace's unabashedly sensual, hedonistic, overt and perhaps most importantly, sexually potent style is a necessary antidote to the gloomy hordes of minimalists (Jil Sander, Calvin, Helmut Lang), modernists (Costume National, Prada) and deconstructionists (Margiela, Schonberger, and, truthfully, Armani), all of whom I'm convinced do their designing after watching a gloomy Swedish movie.

Point well taken, but is Versace the only such choice? Dolce & Gabbana and Moschino are, at their best, wittier alternatives to the glum lot you mentioned, managing to be flamboyant and fun without looking like Eurotrash stereotypes...unless, of course, they want to. Those guys at least know when they're being silly and over the top; the problem with Versace is, the humor always seems unintentional.

 

[LA Guy]

I think that Dolce & Gabbana is only superficially similar to Versace. Dolce and Gabbana derive much of their inspiration from rural and poor Sicily, and these influences manifest clearly in their collections. Versace, in contrast, is unabashedly opulent and extravagant, and Gianni marketed his label by building marble swimming pools and gilded chandeliers. Cristal in crystal, so to speak, a far cry from Dolce and Gabbana's poor Sicilian farmer who dresses in his best (and only) suit for a wedding.

I don't think that either label is "witty" in the same way Moschino tries to be (I'm not a big fan).

 

[pstoller]

I think that Dolce & Gabbana is only superficially similar to Versace.

Well, yeah, but you make that sound like it's a bad thing. The only way I'd ever want to be similar to Versace is superficially (and fiscally, of course). Dolce & Gabbana is likewise superficially similar to Gucci; it depends which parts of which collections we're talking about.

 Dolce and Gabbana derive much of their inspiration from rural and poor Sicily, and these influences manifest clearly in their collections...

I think that "clarity" is limited to a handful of fashion connoisseurs. There's a whole lotta glam going on in their collections, too. No, it's not the decadent, big city opulence of Versace, but neither is anyone going to mistake a Dolce & Gabbana suit for the "poor Sicilian farmer's...best (and only) suit," either. To said poor farmer, that D&G suit looks more like Kiton than it does his own...and I daresay Dolce & Gabbana's work has more in common with Versace's than with Paone's. Anyway, my main point was that, like Versace, they're a colorful counterpoint to the drab severity of all those "serious" designers working studiously in distressed monochromes. That hardly means they represent the same aesthetic.

I don't think that either label is "witty" in the same way Moschino tries to be (I'm not a big fan).

Well, Versace isn't witty at all. Dolce & Gabbana haven't the deadpan wit of a Martin Margiela, nor are they as prat-fall jokey as Moschino, but there is a sense of humor in their oeuvre that I would think is at least as evident as their Sicilian roots. Certainly they smile more often than Tom Ford. But, y'know, if I really want chuckles, I'm gonna go with Gaultier (who also cuts better than most of these guys, even if he obscures it with frou-frou lunacy).

 

[LabelKing]

Tell me what exactly does "Euro Trash" mean? What connotations, and such does it convey to the listener, and such.

Also still I am not changing my opinion about Versace's 2001 Collection. Personally I find it quite elegant in a flamboyant way, and utterly decadent.

Dolce and Gabbana I rather don't have any feelings about. But then did they not make a one buttoned double breasted jacket or was that another designer? Also another flamboyant brand is Roberto Caravalli(sp) which is primarily women's fashions.

 

[LA Guy]

Points well taken, though I'm not a big Gaultier fan, mainly because I think that his tailoring abilities are greatly obscured by his obsessions with S&M imagery (leather buckles on jacket cuffs again?) and kitsch (jackets/shirt combinations? C'mon JPG, you can do better than that.)

I'm left with the image of Martin Margiela, (and because there are no photographs of him, and I don't know anyone who's seen him) I imagine him to be cadaver-faced and long-bodied, deadpanning:

"I veel make very big tuxedo. I veel make coat with pocket that only look like pocket. Yes, that veel be funny."

 

[pstoller]

Tell me what exactly does "Euro Trash" mean? What connotations, and such does it convey to the listener, and such.

The term was coined to refer to young Europeans with a whole lot of money and very little taste. They would flaunt their wealth in gaudy excess, but"”unlike the stereotypical American counterpart"”would do so with a sense of jaded superiority that vaguely suggested royalty. The look was model-slim with a perpetual Mediterranean tan, well-oiled hair, an ostentatious display of gold jewelry and cleavage (male and female), and a permanent sneer. They wouldn't have had the energy to fiddle while Rome burned, but they would have paid someone else to do it (and griped about the fiddler's technique).

The American beautiful people have long since copped much of the look, but they can't really do the Royal Scowl, so they're working on a Morally and/or Militarily Superior Smile. (It's not very effective, but what do you expect of the nouveau riche?) Example: the Hilton sisters.

I am not changing my opinion about Versace's 2001 Collection. Personally I find it quite elegant in a flamboyant way, and utterly decadent.

That's actually a pretty good description of the "eurotrash" look.

another flamboyant brand is Roberto Caravalli(sp) which is primarily women's fashions.

Ah, yes, Cavalli. Sort of like Versace with a rock star fixation. He does men's fashion, too, but it's sometimes hard to tell the difference between the two lines.

 

[pstoller]

I'm not a big Gaultier fan, mainly because I think that his tailoring abilities are greatly obscured by his obsessions with S&M imagery (leather buckles on jacket cuffs again?) and kitsch (jackets/shirt combinations? C'mon JPG, you can do better than that.)

Well, different strokes: I think that's what I like about him. In a way, it's the reverse aspect that gets me: he can indulge his quirks and fetishes, and yet his tailoring will be superb underneath it. Plenty of others have managed the fetish part, but the tailoring is cheap. (At least women have more quality designers of tawdry clothing.) Also, once you get past the signature weird pieces, he makes some pretty sharp "conservative" (by his standards) clothing.

I should note that I have a soft spot for Thierry Mügler, too. Maybe I just like '80s French designers.

I'm left with the image of Martin Margiela, (and because there are no photographs of him, and I don't know anyone who's seen him) I imagine him to be cadaver-faced and long-bodied, deadpanning:
"I veel make very big tuxedo. I veel make coat with pocket that only look like pocket. Yes, that veel be funny."

Peter Lorre's voice in Boris Karloff's body?

I thought I had seen a photo of Margiela in an article on his work at HÃ

rmès, possibly in Vogue. Maybe not. If I ever find it, I'll scan it for you.

 

[Joe G]

I hope that 2001 wasn't a misprint, because I think the current Versace line, picking up all of the hip-hop crap that Sean John just recently ditched, but not doing it as well.

Peace,

JG

 

[European Interloper]

And now, true to form, Europe, complete with Euro Trash, interlopes.
Versace this year is trying to pull off what it calls a Cuban Aristocracy look. This, true to everything Versace does, envolves many things that glitter, are tight, and are gauche. The look is, as many have said, extremely Euro Trash; who are basically the equivalent of Noveaux-Riche on this side of the water. (sans sneer... ahh yes, the fine product of an extended history...)
This season, however, is one of Versace's better seasons. They never quite get there, like Dolce or Cavalli (whom I love for the summer) does, but they got close. If ever a Versace range is good, the moral goes, buy a bit.
Versace have some luxurious hip-hop hoodies. I bought some of their jewelry... It's the small things, the one-offs, that Versace is good for, and it's often those one-offs that make a look so uninfringably cool.
European Interloper