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Vass F last sizing question: excess length?

AJL

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I currently have a pair of suede chukkas in size 40.5. The fit feels pretty good all the way around, except there is approximately 1.5" of dead space between my big toe and the end of the boot. I've heard it said that one should expect a bit of extra length with the F last but this just seems excessive, and I am aware of it when I wear them. Is this much additional length typical for others? I am wondering whether I should try going down a half size, though admittedly the shoes are more on the snug side than not. If I do size down, will the difference in length be notable, and also will the leather give a bit across the width? As a reference, my first pair of EG's in 7/7.5 202 last felt too snug initially, but broke in nicely after a handful of wearings to where they fit like a glove.

I would hate to think I cannot make the F last work, because it is such a classic.
 

pebblegrain

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space in front of your toe is practically irrelevant. think rather of whether you foot slips inside the shoe while walking, whether there is pinching or other discomfort
 

aon

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I agree. Shoes with elongated lasts will have a space between your toe and the tip of the shoe.
 

alliswell

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Are the shoes creasing where you would expect them to across the vamp?
 

agoldf

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Originally Posted by rebel222
I agree with the previous posts about the length being mostly irrelevant; however, the F last is not a very elongated last. If you have excessive length on that last, your foot is probably not in the proper place on the footbed.

I would suspect the same.
 

Claus

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To have a certain space in front of your toes is important -- maybe, the most important aspect of sizing:
  • Too little, and your toes are pressed together during the "push movement". That may alter the bone structure of your feet in the long run. Lack of allowance is the number 1 reason for foot problems.
  • Too much, and your feet needs to overcome extra resistance during the "push movement". The result is extra strain on your angles and knees.
In both cases, it's more likely then usually that the ball of your feet is not where it should be. Rebel222 is correct. Unless I have an error in my calculation, 1.5 inches (38 mm) translates to a difference of 5.7 EU units. For elongated lasts, I'd expect about 3.8 EU units maximum. However, that's just on the back of a envelope calculation. For a better estimation, I'd need foot length, measured properly.
 

Trifon

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Extra space of 1.5 inches sounds quite much to be honest. There is pretty closely 1 inch empty void in my C&J 348E last shoes (now that's an elongated last!) at the front, and they fit me well. But what am I to judge, if they feel comfortable then they probably are the right size, however if they don't feel even a tad snug right out of the box then they might be too big. I think new shoes should allways be a little snug to start with. Try to see where the ball of the foot rests, do they feel ok there?
 

AJL

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As regards creasing, I am not sure visually, though I suspect you are referring to where the shoe breaks on my foot as it flexes, and to be honest it does feel a bit uncomfortable across my instep. I assume this would also relate to the issue of where my foot sits in the footbed, i.e. proper placement. I remember having a similar issue with C&J Saville's on 337 last, which I eventually found unwearable. I wonder if these types of (even slightly) elongated lasts are just not right for my foot...

The question remains, however, whether I should try to size down .5 Also, although Claus has made an interesting calculation, based on what I'm not sure, no one has actually indicated how much space they have at the end of their F lasts. Surely there are one or two among you sporting F lasted shoes and a tape measure?


Edit: I should also point out that I wear custom orthotics, which extend from my heel to just behind the ball of my feet. I have found these are rarely a problem fitwise in and of themselves as my feet are extremely flat, unless I'm dealing with an extremely low volume shoe to begin with. If anything, they seem to make medium and higher volume shoes more wearable as they take up the additional space. Obviously, they seat my feet beautifully from the heel to the arch, but I suppose it's possible they don't match up well with certain types of lasts across the length of the shoe.
 

TRINI

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Originally Posted by AJL
I currently have a pair of suede chukkas in size 40.5. The fit feels pretty good all the way around, except there is approximately 1.5" of dead space between my big toe and the end of the boot. I've heard it said that one should expect a bit of extra length with the F last but this just seems excessive, and I am aware of it when I wear them. Is this much additional length typical for others? I am wondering whether I should try going down a half size, though admittedly the shoes are more on the snug side than not. If I do size down, will the difference in length be notable, and also will the leather give a bit across the width? As a reference, my first pair of EG's in 7/7.5 202 last felt too snug initially, but broke in nicely after a handful of wearings to where they fit like a glove.

I would hate to think I cannot make the F last work, because it is such a classic.


Sounds like they don't fit you. I think you should send them to me.
 

AJL

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Originally Posted by geoffmartin17
Can you post pics of said f last chukkas?

Just posted a few in (possible) FS thread.
 

Claus

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Originally Posted by AJL
The question remains, however, whether I should try to size down .5 Also, although Claus has made an interesting calculation, based on what I'm not sure, no one has actually indicated how much space they have at the end of their F lasts.

Well, I have implemented a shoes size calculator for my site based on a shoe maker's calculations. I've also checked last week whether it works correctly. And for UK and US sizes, the calculation fits the data, on average.

Concerning your inquiry about 'typical' space: This will probably not help you. Some people have relatively wide feet and they probably upsized a lot for the F last. Those have ended up with too much space in front of their toes. Others have extreme narrow feet, and they probably downsized. Those have ended up with nearly no space in front of their toes.

And some have feet fitting the F last, and they'll have just the right amount of space.

So, how will you know who's who?

Anyway, assuming the maker of the F last followed standard recommendations for last making and sizing, the space should be just right if your feet have the right length.

I'll spare you the calculation, and simply say that shoes in EU 40.5 was probably meant to be weared by people with a feet length of about 25.3 to 25.7 cm. Get your feet length measured while standing upright, and you have the precise excess length in your case.

Concerning your other question: Going down half a size will shorten the shoe by only 0.3 cm.

Hardly worth the effort.
 

aj2603

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Can someone help me with sizing of Vass.

I am UK 10 in Carmina's Rain last and Trickers 4497s last.

What size should i go for in Vass F last ? 44 or 44.5 ??
 

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