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Vass discontinuing US sales?

Discussion in 'Classic Menswear' started by kabert, Apr 6, 2005.

  1. Alexis

    Alexis Senior member

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    JA is certifiable. Kay Bert is a cop. [​IMG]
     
  2. lisapop

    lisapop Senior member

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    My 2 Euros: In a nutshell, some men go to bespoke makers because of their admiration for and appreciation of the art and craft of handmade clothes.  At the same time, however, I do think there are men who go to other bespoke makers to either be "cool", to be validated, or to enjoy bragging rights to boast of the pedigree or origin of their clothes, whether it be London, Savile Row, Rome, Milan, or wherever.  That said, in my mind, at least (Still too early for it to be functioning fully, so my apologies for any major gaffes), there are two general bespoke categories for the purposes of this
    debate: The famous bespoke houses, firms, and ateliers (or those in prestigious locations), and the more esoteric ones.  There are those who will go to the better-known establishments, such as Anderson & Shepperd, Huntsman, John Lobb, Turnbull, etc., for those bragging rights.  All quality clothes, but all, at the same time, denoting a definite cache.  For such men, it validates them to make mention their suits or shoes or shirts are from Anderson's or Lobb, or from Savile Row, or London, or mentioning it all in one breath if they're truly overbearing.  Then, there are those who patronize the less "glamorous" houses on Savile Row, such as Welsh---While a quality garment is the underpinning reason for patronizing Welsh, for some, they still enjoy mentioning their suit was made on Savile Row (Said with just the correct amount of lock-jaw).  Still others using the independent London tailors off the beaten path, or Row,  like to boast their suits are made in London, though usually not mentioning the specific names of their more obscure indy tailors.  Not all men, but there are many encompassed in this general category.   In the more esoteric category of bespoke makers who, for whatever reason, are not "name" brands, such as Raphael (tailor), Perry Ercolino (shoes), and for shirts, Alex Kabbaz (Relax, Alex, this is not intended as a knock against you), I'd concur with Alex that most, if not all, customers are using them because they like the results of what they make for them, not for bragging rights.  All three makers are in the New York area, which does not enjoy the same cache as, say, England or Italy (Maybe a bit more cache than Hungary, though, with all deference to the folks at Vass), and so there is not the same mystique in mentioning your clothes are made in Manhattan, East Hampton, or Doylestown, PA.  Such customers are more genuine and purer of intentions (again in my mind), in seeking the best of the best clothes (In their minds).  They don't have a need to bask in the reflected glory of the bespoke maker's fame, just bask in the admiration of those appreciating the clothes that they are wearing.
    Grayson
     
  3. alchimiste

    alchimiste Senior member

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    Marc there is a fourth category. You mentioned expensive and famous (e.g. Savile Row), less expensive with pseudo-fame (minor SR, off-Row), expensive and less widely known, but there are also those who are neither expensive nor widely known (Hong Kong tailors for instance). They provide good value to those who cannot afford a Kabbaz shirt.

    Mathieu
     
  4. Gabor Halmos

    Gabor Halmos Member

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    I think with my post I have opened another can of worms [​IMG]
    Special orders would be welcome through a retailer, who stocks some styles, but we can't merely build a business on custom orders, unlike some English makers, who visit the states twice a year and charge $3200 and up for a pair of shoes, that is about 4 times more than our starting price (and that is a direct sale, with no retail store involved). Although I am looking into a possibility of a custom order program, not internet based.
    Ron, you know the business much better than I do, but I know one thing, none of the companies on Vass' level stock the shoes in depth, no Kiton, no Lattanzi. We do not have a few styles every season, the stores can choose from hundreds of variations all the time, which ones to stock? We do not require store buyers to buy ten styles; a shop can start out with 2-3 types.
     
  5. Alexander Kabbaz

    Alexander Kabbaz Senior member

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  6. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    The idea that a business based on small, individual orders 'would not be welcome' is confusing to me.
    Special orders would be welcome through a retailer, who stocks some styles, but we can't merely build a business on custom orders, unlike some English makers, who visit the states twice a year and charge $3200 and up for a pair of shoes, that is about 4 times more than our starting price (and that is a direct sale, with no retail store involved). Although I am looking into a possibility of a custom order program, not internet based.
    Ron, you know the business much better than I do, but I know one thing, none of the companies on Vass' level stock the shoes in depth, no Kiton, no Lattanzi. We do not have a few styles every season, the stores can choose from hundreds of variations all the time, which ones to stock? We do not require store buyers to buy ten styles; a shop can start out with 2-3 types.
    Gabor, thanks for posting. It's great when representative of companies take time from their busy workdays to post on the forum. Jon.
     
  7. globetrotter

    globetrotter Senior member

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    bingo,

    as a matter of fact, until I fond this forum, I thougth Vass to be in this catagory - I had nver met anyone outside of a few people who traveled regularly to Hungary for work who had ever heard of Vass.

    Unless specifically asked, I never talk about the sources of my clothes. I can't imagine bragging about my bespoke clothes with pretty much anybody I know. I buy what I do because I enjoy the quality, and the fit, and I pick the sources that I can afford without bankrupting myself. that simple.
     
  8. LA Guy

    LA Guy Opposite Santa Staff Member Moderator

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    I think that Johnnynorman3 (JN3, is that the official abbreviation now?) has articulated my opinions much more eloquently than I could have, so I'll let it rest at that. However, alex writes:

    I didn't realize that becoming a true artisan gave you Jedi mind-reading abilities. (Is there a special school on Corusant for this?) If this is in fact true, than I must admit my naiveity about bespoke clothing.
     
  9. johnapril

    johnapril Senior member

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    NO. Not even one. Not even 1%. Do I claim to know the motivations of each and every bespoke shirt client I have? Yes. Completely and absolutely. That is the responsibility of a true artisan.
    I didn't realize that becoming a true artisan gave you Jedi mind-reading abilities. Â (Is there a special school on Corusant for this?) Â If this is in fact true, than I must admit my naiveity about bespoke clothing.
    less mind-reading, more hubris
     
  10. tdial

    tdial Senior member

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    I would like to add one more thing about going bespoke, and I will use Kabbaz as an example (though I have not yet enjoyed the pleasure of working with Kabbaz). One of the great benefits I derive from going for a bespoke garment, and more specifically, working with a bespoke artisan, is that I know, time in and time out, that I will get extreme product excellence as well as extreme service excellence.

    I haven't used a bespoke shirtmaker, but I don't think I would need to be fitted more than the first couple of times to get the patterns correct. After that, I'm just placing orders based on my style choices and fabrics, which actually saves time over the life of my shirt purchases.

    For my own bespoke tailor here, I don't have to get fitted over and over again. I just go in for the first fitting, and assuming nothing's crazy about the fit, the garment should fit pretty closely. As I work more with him (this last jacket was only my second garment done by him), we might get to a point where he knows me so well that one fitting might be all it takes.

    It's a relationship. I guess there's something cool about that, I suppose. And the confidence in knowing that I have a suberbly fitting jacket/shirt/pair of shoes is cool, but the label isn't what makes it such.
     
  11. Thracozaag

    Thracozaag Senior member

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    Actually it's Coruscant; this correction brought to you by your friendly neighborhood Star Wars geek [​IMG] [​IMG] koji
     
  12. Brian SD

    Brian SD Senior member

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    (LA Guy @ April 11 2005,09:32) (Is there a special school on Corusant for this?) If this is in fact true, than I must admit my naiveity about bespoke clothing.
    Actually it's Coruscant; this correction brought to you by your friendly neighborhood Star Wars geek [​IMG] [​IMG] koji
    Oh dear God. [​IMG]
     
  13. Horace

    Horace Senior member

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    whatever questioning I've done of the functional (and on occasion) the aesthetic benefits of handworked shoes, I am in complete agreement with you. Well put.
     
  14. imageWIS

    imageWIS Senior member

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    (Thracozaag @ April 11 2005,11:36)
    (Is there a special school on Corusant for this?) If this is in fact true, than I must admit my naiveity about bespoke clothing.
    Actually it's Coruscant; this correction brought to you by your friendly neighborhood Star Wars geek [​IMG] [​IMG] koji
    Oh dear God. [​IMG]
    I thought that was Koji's line? Jon.
     

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